Hi...very new and upset.....

have two dogs, 5yr old collie, Seka and 2yr old JR/Lakeland Terrier, Betsy...

Last September got them spayed as Besty had Phantom prenancy, I came into house and she put a 2" gash in Seka's front front leg...ok for a while but then my mum also inherited a JR 18 months ago...ok initially then she's had three goes at her, leaving punctures in her legs, ..... has also had three further goes at Seka, graping her front knee joint on holiday which swelled like a balloon and had to be vet treated..puncturing her tail on two seperate occaisions since...(she tends to get hold and then 'locks' her jaws)

Tonight has resluted in me being bitten on two fingers and Seka had her back leg caught this time which nicked an artary and leaked blood everywhere...vet has got her and sorted her....

On each occaision Betsy has been thrown in cage and then spends a couple of days with a muzzle on...after that she calms again and we let her free again...

these seem to occur in a three week cycle...has the spaying gone wrong...is there HRT for dogs....

We are at the moment discussing letting her move on to a new home, with just her there...but would like thoughts....

Hi

How horrible, I hope Seka will be OK. You must be absolutely distraught at what is happening.

It really does look like the spaying has had some affect to change her and I believe if a bitch is spayed at certain times when hormones are high it can cause them to be 'caught' at a stage of hormonal imbalance, rather than the peaks and troughs that they usually have. This is why many vets still prefer to wait until midway between seasons after their first season - although the jury is still out on that one!

I think first off you need to get your vet to do some checks on her, as if this is all since the spay it is almost certainly why. Can they also check to see that they haven't left any ovary, or part ovary inside, as I have heard of this causing problems too. Hopefully you are insured, as it could be expensive.

If the vet cannot come up with any reasons then you are going to have to consult a behaviourist to come in and see what is going on, the fact that she calms down after being put out the group for a bit, could indicate that she is struggling to keep her status within the group, but to be honest, it really is too serious to just take a guess on.

In the meantime, you have no option but not to give her any opprotunity for another go at Seka, not an easy task as keeping them apart too much wont help the situation, you don't have many options really except try and work out what the 'fash points' are that triggers things and avoid them, and or muzzling when you can't be there - neither are easy or ideal.

Sorry not to be more positive, but I do think this is one for someone to come in and sort out for you.

I do so hope that Seka is OK, problem is now she is vulnerable and dogs pick up on that. Betsy will also feel 'demoted' as Seka will be getting attention, so not an easy situation all round.

Speak to the vet and get those tests if you can. Any behaviourist would advise this first too.

Kate

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HI.

Sorry to hear you are having these problems. You should speak to a vet. But certainly hold fire on rehoming for a while. I had two fighting dog, one a staffy x and the other a australian cattle dog x. It is hard, but we got through it and now, although not the best of friends, live very happily together.

What has started these fights off?

Has it happened when humans are not present?

How often are the dogs walked together?

Do they eat together?

How is the heirachy in your house? i.e what is the pecking order? humans at the top, dogs at the top, if so which one?

Was everything ok before the neutering? Are both dogs spayed?

You obviously can't put the other dog in danger. But I don't like the sound a dog being put in a cage and muzzled. Dogs live in the moment. Therefore, after these attacks have happened your dog will not be aware of why she is being punished. Therefore this treatment is cruel. If you have to, get a baby gate and put one in the kitchen.

But please do not treat the other dog like this. This dog is behaving like this for a reason and needs understanding, not thrown in a cage. Dogs are not "nasty" like humans, they just react to a situation. Unitl you know what that situation is then keep her in the kitchen

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Lilly, Max, Henry and Sammy. The joys of my life!

By the way, I forgot to welcome you to the forum

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Lilly, Max, Henry and Sammy. The joys of my life!

hi...as far as we know they are fine on there own...as I am on my own 75% of the time, my OH works away, and my son has Autism...so life in general is difficult...

the first event was as I returned to the house and they both tried to get to me...the holiday event was we'd been out for a meal and on return everyone went straight into the caravan and it got coatic, and last nights seems to have involved fireworks and me going through to make a coffee!!!....I think they funnelled in the kitchen door way...

They go for walks together, but I admit they don't go out enough...and we also think Seka was abused as a puppy as she's always been wary of certian things (men in hats!) and dogs....we got her at 13 weeks....

They were both spayed last september...

We're going to ask my in-laws...they lost their last dog four years ago...

Did the initial scrap happen when you brought her home from being spayed?

Mo

no...first event was when both in season and Betsy having Phantom pregnancy...she was spayed after pills to dry her up, so two weeks after Seka

Ahhh ok, when you say last september do you mean two months ago? or the previous september, just trying to get the timeline? ahh just read that 18 months ago another dog came into the mix and it appears that was after the spaying.


mo

i've got to think now......got Seka 2004, Betsy 2007 and Daisy came to my Mum in July2008, but is only 4 months older than Betsy...they spaying was September 2008....

The problem I see is that they fight when they get excited? so it seems to be some form of transferred aggression? I would be betting they are trying to sort out their hiaracy and its not been resolved, BUT the problem is they are all female, and this IMO throws a whole new light on the matter, whats the saying Males fight for breeding rights, female fight for breathing rights, I do feel females will hold grudges. I have two girls here that the youngest started to push her luck, the older girl wasnt giving up her place and so the battle commenced, we have had a few set twos, and eventually I had had enough, so I seperate with a baby gate, they can lie next to each other with the baby gate inbetween, and not bother, but if I move that gate, after a few seconds they will have a go at each other, I am not giving up either girl, so we have worked around the situation, they just dont like each other, I think its possible unless you can seperate then a behaviourist may be needed, I would also have betsy tested for any thyroid disfunctions, as this can induce agression too.

Mo