Storm is a 10 week old Alaskan Malamute had him 2 weeks now, had a crate for a week and have left door open so he can go in and out which he has been happy to do. Yesterday I shut him in for 5 mins, he cried and howled but I let him out once he stopped doing this. Tonight I shut him in again and he was fine for about 3 mins then started crying again, I got him to lie down (with the door still closed) and gave him a treat when he did so without crying, I praised him and opened the door once he seemed calmer.
Am I right to do this little by little, so far he has shown no interest in lying in his crate, I have put lots of blankets and his favourite toys in, he just drags them all out. Ive tried looking at crate threads but cant seem to find out how I am supposed to train him to see the crate as his 'space'.
Any help most welcome x

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1 puppy Storm 1 rabbit Snuffy

hey, fairy! :--)

i would feed him in it, with the door SHUT - to get him accustomed to the idea while he is busy with something other than fretting over the door. he should be eating 2x each day, so that is 5 to 10-mins, twice daily. when he has finished his meal, do not wait for him to begin fussing; walk over, have a TREAT in Ur hand, lure him into a Down by holding it all the way at the bottom of the door till he lies-down to reach it, then when he drops on his elbows, praise him, feed the treat, open the door WHILE he is down + calm... this is good practice, and 2 pieces of skinless chicken-breast or cubes of low-fat mozzarella are not going to create a blimpoid puppy! i am speaking of 1/4 inch cubes or even 1/8th inch cubes - if he will drop for a 1/8th inch cube, then it works! ;--) why add more calories? he voted by offering wanted behavior... thats fine!

in addition, putting him in there with a good safe chew-toy * After * he has had a good romp + a potty-trip, to chew and nap, is a good idea - a safe chewy is 100% rubber + solid (a hefty bone-shape or an irregular ball like a molecular-model), a nylabone that is sized BIGGER than his current size - ex, if he is considered small get Med, if he is the wt of a Med-dog get a Lg, etc.
WASH any new chewy before giving it to the dog - rubber in particular has a powder on it to repel dirt, and believe me it tastes *awful* - i made a sandwich once after opening + handling a new rubber toy (without washing my hands, tsk!) and boy, was i sorry - yuk.

taking half his breakfast, adding a small amount of water (about 1 part h2o to 3 parts solids) letting it stand to soften, stuff it into a Kong (washed! :-) and freezing it overnight, creates a puppy pacifier - these are especially good when he hits 16-weeks and begins to drop teeth, the cold is soothing to lick + chew.
the BLACK Kongs are tougher, i would recommend that - and a Large one will fit him as an adult, no point in buying 2 sizes, he will outgrow puppyhood faster than U will believe, LOL. just fill the skinny end, do not stuff the entire Kong - about half the depth of the Kong is good.
Kongs are top-rack dishwasher safe for sanitizing, just soak the used Kong - i use an empty 32-oz yogurt container, plop in the Kong, cover w/ cold water, leave it on the counter out of reach of pets, or put it right in the DW to keep the kitty from getting into it; after the stuck bits soften, use a butterknife to gently scrape them off the walls, and put it wide-end down in the DW for cleaning.

i also put the crate within arms-reach of my bed, as any puppy under 16 to 20-weeks old goes out at 3-AM every night, till they can make it thru an 8-hour night without a pee break. take him out on-leash as late as possible, make sure he is empty, take him to the bedroom, close the door of the room, dress for bed, LAY OUT what U will need for the early-AM pee trip (coat, boots, whatever - be sure U have a TREAT for his voiding outdoors! put it in the pocket, or get it from the frig on the way out the door),
put the pup in the crate last thing; toss a goody in for him to follow, close the door, lights out, go to sleep.

IF * He * Fusses, and he just went in (he does not have an urgent need), BURP the crate - just a soft, firm thump with a flat palm on the roof of his shipping crate. the pup will be startled, this is more vibration than sound, he will FEEL it under his body. ** in that sudden pause / quiet, == praise the pup == warmly + quietly - 'Good boy, go to sleep...' or 'bedtime', or 'shhhhhh...' - something soothing + calm.
THEN - take a deep breath, Roll Over, and Sigh...
999 pups / dogs of 1,000 will do the same - get up or turn around,
settle comfortably, and go to sleep.

congratulations on the new pup! :--)
happy training,
--- terry

terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, IPDTA, TDF

Hi

Well done for taking things slowly, too many people just shut a puppy in a crate and expect them to like it.

I would say however, that the times you decide to shut the door, make sure your puppy is tired i.e. had a good run around, pee etc. etc. and you know he is likely to be more relaxed.

Put a Kong in with him, stuffed with something nice, or an extra special chew stick. Smackos in the Kong are good, or Cheese. When you shut the door, stay in the same room as him and only wait four or five minutes, before opening the door. He probably won't even notice. When you can do this in the same room, just do the same and go into the other room for a moment and come back. Don't return to puppy if he is crying.

You will probably find that by pottering around the kitchen - if the crate is there, or wherever it is, the puppy will relax and doze off.

It really is a case of just letting him know that when you are in the crate, I am around, but I won't be paying you any attention. It also helps if you don't always give your dog attention on demand at other times.

Below is an answer of mine for a similar thread, some bits may help...

Crate training

Presuming your puppy is used to going in their crate at food times, with nice treats and sleepy times (if they fall asleep elsewhere, pick them up and place in the crate) you eventually can shut the door for short periods, a puppy shouldn't be distressed in their crate, unless they need to pee/poo and then it is up to you to get them out asap.

Put puppy in the garden when likely to pee/poo, when she does, use command and give lots and lots of praise (food if it works!). Take back in and puppy should be OK for about an hour or so, when will need to be taken back out, or upon waking if they have had a sleep. If puppy doesn't 'perform', put into crate (locked!) with chew or something for 10/15 minutes and then take back out again and repeat the process. When puppy performs then you are back to the safe zone again and can have free run of whereever. This should build up so you can go several hours and puppy starts to either whine in the crate, or goes and whines at the door when they need to go. Be patient, you may have accidents. Ignore these, but reward the good results.

It may be worth restricting the places puppy can go in between times, so you can keep an eye on whether they are doing the usual 'need to go' tricks, sniffing, circling, licking, waiting at door etc. etc.

DO NOT PUT PUPPY PAD IN CRATE - this defeats the object of toilet training. Puppy pads give mixed messages anyway and are not the greatest things to help get a clean dog.

Puppies have to learn from us and be guided by us how to do all this, as they don't have their mums to show them!

At night, don't feed puppy after 6.00pm. Try and make sure your puppy has gone to toilet the latest you can and that you have seen them go. If not, do the crate, outside, crate, outside, until they go, at night when it is cold and wet it isn't easy, everyone should get there puppy in the summer - much easier!!! (joke!!). My record is until 2.30 in the morning, but we have had a lot of puppies go through our house!

Then, making sure the crate is in a safe, warm place - next to your bed if necessary so you can hear any figiting and if necessary get them out as soon as possible (carry don't let them walk down stairs, or they will pee on the way) ! Bear in mind as puppy grows more confident you can move the crate back down stairs in stages i.e. to the door of the bedroom, out on the landing, to the bottom of the stairs, into the kitchen.

Put the puppy into the crate and go to sleep, puppy may cry a little or whine, but will learn to settle down if ignored, or just reassured with your voice. Be prepared to hear figiting at any time and take puppy downstairs. If you don't better you get up around 6.00am and take the puppy out, use your command to get a result, or just use the command when the puppy does the action to get the association going - depending on what stage you are at.

If puppy doesn't go, put back in crate and do the 10 minutes, crate, outside, crate thing again.

If puppy pees in the crate in the night, either, you haven't heard them!, the crate is too large and gives them room to go to far away from their bed, you didn't see them 'go' before settling them down - or maybe all three!!

It can help to have two crates if you are doing this upstairs.

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It sounds like you have gone past the stages for this, but some of it may help. Keep up the good work, you are doing well so far.

Kate

__________________
Listen to everyone, but use what suits you... and if it works, don't change it!

i sympathise with you because i have read so many different books and spoke to the breeder of my puppy and friends who have crate trained and they all say different things.
i have a crate for when my pup comes home but am still confused as some people say you need to take them out a few times to toilet during the night and others ( including breeder) say that you do not take them out you put paper one end of crate until they are old enough to control themselves
if i take her out during the night will she whine every night because she expects it and if i don't will she think it is ok to toilet on the paper all the time?
and also how quickly can you get them used to having the door shut as during the night surely its shut to prevent them wandering toileting everywhere and chewing?
i am armed with books and kongs but am still not sure of how to crate train effectively!!

hey, victoria! :--)

i have *always* taken every pup out at 3-AM every night, until they were 15 to 16-WO and could go thru an 8-hr night w/o needing a potty-trip. No, they do not learn to demand it, they outgrow it, LOL. (good thing...)

i have put pups in the crate, right beside my bed, the very first night -
and i would use a SHIPPING crate, not a wire-crate, that is sized for the dog as an adult. a med to Lg dog will use a 2-ft x 3-ft x 27-inch high crate - its a standard size.
a shipping-crate is so useful for the dogs lifetime - don;t sell it used when the pup is housetrained, for travel they are GREAT. my dog stayed in 4-star hotels with me, b/c i always told them i would sign anything for liability that they put in front of me, she is ALWAYS crated if i cannot take her along, and ALWAYS along anytime that she can be, and she is NEVER allowed on furniture of any kind - just the floor.
they were happy to accomodate us!
for safe travel in the car, a crate can be a lifesaver - bodies should ALL be secured, in case of an impact. accidents happen, it is better to be prepared than not. a crash rated dog seat-belt is another option, but the pup may chew it in half - it has happened! so U might stick with the crate in the car in pup-hood.

congrats on the pup, and happy training!
--- terry

terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, IPDTA, TDF

Hi I take it that you haven't go your puppy yet? Then I would suggest the first few nights you have the puppy with you, in the crate beside your bed. It is a big shock leaving mum and littermates and you can reassure the puppy.

A lot will depend on your puppy, some pups are able to go through the night, some not, but by having puppy by the bed, you will be able to know when he starts figiting and take it out. I would say give it a last wee and poo - they will need to have a little walk around the garden - as late as you can, say 12 - 1.00 and then see what happens, your puppy should be able to go up to five or six in the morning. A lot will depend on routine and what access they had to wander around in the night with mum. Even if your puppy hasn't asked to go out, then get up at 6.am and take him downstairs to go out. At night, if the puppy is next to you, you will be able to shut the door, the first night you may have to put your hand on the cage initially

I would try and avoid getting up at three unless your puppy asks, as if you start doing this, it could become a marker of time for your puppy, like they know walk time, food time etc.

I would also avoid paper in the crate, but have paper outside the crate during the day if you have to. Most little puppies will leave their den to toilet a little way away. The breeder probably has used paper with the bitch, so the association should be there. As puppy grows you can move the paper nearer to the door. However, if you watch your puppy carefully and think about when it needs to pee or poo, you should anticipate any accidents. The idea is to pre-empt it.

Try and get in the habit of letting your puppy walk to the door and only say anything if they toilet inside and they are in the middle or about to do it. Then just say 'no' or 'ah ah' and recall them backwards to the door, otherwise ignore any accidents, not a sigh should eminate from you, nor a raise of the eyebrows!! Dogs read body language before anything else!

No puppy should have the opportunity to wander off into another room, or upstairs without you, for the first few weeks you need to watch your puppy like a hawk and help them get it right.

Gradually over the weeks you can move your crate at night further out across the room, to the door until it is downstairs, this hopefully will coincide with their bladders growing too and then into the kitchen. This is why is is good to have two crates, one for upstairs initially.

It doesn't really matter what crate you have, although I have found the wire ones ideal, as the puppy is still part of what is going on and you can throw treats into it easily as you are pottering around to get good associations with it, either when they are shut in, or just nearby. If you need to, at night, you can put something over it, so they feel cosy and safe.

Wire crates also collapse down flat to take with you, or just store away after your puppy has moved on, until the next one comes along

Get the book Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey is great to help sort out your plan of action!! and whilst you want to listen to everyones advice and it will certainly be varied, do what suits you and your puppy, don't feel presurissed to do it a set way, but be consistent with what you do choose, it is no good swapping and changing every few days, or you will have a confused puppy.

Puppies will adjust anywhere with a crate, in my job with an assistance dog charity, I worked away four nights a week, staying in hotels throughout the UK. As well as having two of my own dogs with me, I very often had a puppy, or dog in training with me too. I had cages in most of my cars, but if not, would have crates, sometimes on the backseat if I had to, but ensure it is secured with a strap or lead, onto the seatbelt.

I think we all know that no dog should travel unsecured.



Kate

__________________
Listen to everyone, but use what suits you... and if it works, don't change it!

thanks for all the advice
Storm is asleep in his crate with the door shut It took about half an hour for him to settle and he was v vocal!!! but it was time for his nap so I knew he was tired, I kept saying "go to sleep" and "lie down" in a soothing voice and sat where he could see me. Dont know if he will be the same next time but at least he has settled down in the crate for a sleep now.
Did I do this correctly? I feel mean for letting him cry for half an hour but I know if I let him out when he cried he would realise crying meant he got his own way.

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1 puppy Storm 1 rabbit Snuffy

Oh poor you. It is horrid. However, I am sure you will reap the benefits. You were there for him to reassure him, you hadn't gone anywhere, so he will learn that it is OK to be in there. Make sure you still use lots of rewards when he is in there voluntarily.

When you are trying to eliminate a behaviour it will ALWAYS get worse (peak), before it then gets better and will continue to get better as each time you go through it, that peak will get smaller and smaller.

However, if you reward that behaviour (i.e. crying and whining), by giving in, it will immediately go straight back up to where it was. Why? because random reward is a very strong reinforcer.

Take for example a chocolate machine. If you put a coin in, you get chocolate, if perhaps the machine didn't give you anything, you may think about putting another coin in and if you got chocolate that time, you would then try it again. If however, you put in a coin and nothing comes out, you would try again, if nothing comes a second time, you may try once more, but if nothing came out, you would definately give up..... This is why people do the lottery, because occassionally they win a small sum. If they never won anything or no one won anything ever, they wouldn't do it!

OK learning theory lesson over!! You have done really well, exactly what you should have done. Now you have gone through that pain barrier you may find it easier next time. Just still be around to reassure Storm for a few times, then you can pop into another room for a few minutes and back again!

Ever watched Supernanny?

Well done.

Kate

__________________
Listen to everyone, but use what suits you... and if it works, don't change it!

Ooops

I should have said. If he settles eventually with door shut, you could then, if you can do it without waking Storm, open the door, so it is open when he wakes up!

This way you don't have to wait for him to whine or cry to come out and thus reward the behaviour!

Kate

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Listen to everyone, but use what suits you... and if it works, don't change it!

thankyou so much for all the advice sorry for nipping in on storm's thread!!
i think that the trial and error thing is right and i guess i will try and see what works for her
2 weeks to go!!
good luck with storm