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Dog Training and Behaviour Discuss dog training and behaviour problems in this section. Are you having problems with your dogs behaviour? Then submit your problems and get help from other members. Do you have some excellent dog training advice? then submit your details here to help others.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2009, 11:52 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

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Originally Posted by mjohnson84 View Post
To be successful, a good crate-training program uses positive reinforcement. The crate should be a comfortable and inviting place for the puppy. To accomplish this, the crate can be lined with a soft towel or padding. Also, the pup should want to enter the crate. Luring is fastest way to associate the crate with being good place to go. To lure the puppy into the crate, use small bits of treats such as pieces of hot dog. When the puppy goes into the crate to get the treat and explore the new area, leave the door open to let it come out as it wishes. Continue to use this process until the puppy enters the crate on its own for the treat. Be sure to praise the puppy gently while it is in the crate and associate a word or phrase for going in the crate. Phases such as "kennel up" or “go to your room” work nicely. Use the association word or phase as you are putting the treat into the crate and the puppy is following it in. Repeat this procedure several times to get your puppy accustomed to going into its crate.

The amount of time the puppy spends in the crate is extremely important. Because puppies have poor bladder and bowel control, they should not spend any more than four to five hours in the crate at a time, with the exception of sleeping in the crate during the night. Below is the crate-training schedule I recommend to those who want to use this friendly method of potty training:

8:00 AM – Take the puppy out of its crate and outside to potty. It is important that you remain with the puppy. If you go inside, the pup might be more concerned with following you instead of defecating. Also, it is very important that you praise the pup for going to the bathroom in a desirable location. Allow the puppy to play for a few minutes. If there is no fence around your yard, be sure to put a leash on the puppy so it can not run away. Bring the puppy back inside, give its breakfast, and crate. After each feeding, you should take the puppy back outside to potty.

12:00 PM - It is time to take the puppy back outside. If the puppy begins to play, ignore the play behavior. If the puppy attempts to engage you in play, stand still with your arms folded across your chest. Don’t try to sweet talk the puppy into going potty. Although most dog owners would disagree with me, dogs don’t understand spoken language. If you attempt to sweet talk to the puppy, the pup could mistake the tone of your voice with approval. Praise only when the pup completes the task at hand. Again the pup should be allowed a few minutes of playtime and then brought back inside and fed. After feeding, take the pup back outside to provide the opportunity to potty again. Then bring the pup back inside and place in its crate.

5:00 PM – Follow the same procedure as the 12 o’clock routine. The only difference is that you may allow the puppy to remain outside of its crate for two to three hours. Constantly supervise the puppy to ensure that it does not potty inside the house. If you can not supervise the pup, place it in a small playpen. These can be purchased at a local pet store or through a pet supply catalogue.

8:00 PM – Take the pup outside to go potty. When it is brought back inside, give it its last meal of the day. A young puppy should be given at least four meals a day until it is four to five months of age. As the puppy grows, the number of meals is decreased and the amount of food is increased for each meal. After this feeding, take the puppy outside before it is returned to its crate.

11:00 PM – This should be the last venture outside for potty for the day. Allow very little playtime during this outing so that the puppy will not expect to be played with during this late hour. Then return the pup to its crate for the night. If the puppy whines or barks to be let out, ignore the behavior. Soon the puppy will learn that its complaining will not be rewarded, and it will soon stop and go to sleep.

Follow this schedule for seven to 10 days. After this time period, reward the pup with more time outside of its crate. If you have to leave the puppy alone for any length of time, it should be placed in its crate. It will learn that the crate is its safe place to den while its master is away.
IMO this plan involves the puppy being put in the crate FAR too frequently anf for FAR too long. If you are going to keep a puppy in the crate for this amount of time it is, to me, tantamount to cruelty and you should stick to dogs that come with four wheels and a handle.

As for the OP - if you're fed up now and you haven't even hit the teething/adolescence stage, I think it would be in the best interest of the puppy to rehome it while it's still young enough to find a new home relatively easily. I'd suggest contacting the breeder first - most decent breeders have a waiting list anyway (so may know of someone who missed out on the litter and who would be thrilled to get another chance of a pup) and will take pups back if need be, to prevent rescue centres being any more lumbered than they are already.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2009, 11:54 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..
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Old 23-09-2009, 11:55 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

Let your puppy out of the crate more often, he needs to interact with you more, when he is tired is the time to use the crate
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Old 23-09-2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

From my own experience with my Westie, they are people dogs and don't like to be left out of things. If he is in his crate and can hear you in the house he will want to be with you and your family.

I had a crate for Monty but didn't use it for housetraining so I can't help you there, sorry. I preferred giving him the run of the kitchen and garden and watching him like a hawk, praising him when he went in the right place. When he did mess in the kitchen I would take him back to it and show him and then take him outside to the garden say "busy outside". We use the word "busy" for toilet training.

Westies are bright dogs and with consistent commands and praise yours will soon learn.

Please don't give up on him, there are plenty of good doggy people on here who can give you advice and support before it comes to that.

Good luck xx
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Old 23-09-2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

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Originally Posted by mjohnson84 View Post
sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..
how long are you leaving him in there?

How often?

And for what purpose are you crate training him? does he chew? or is it for toilet training?

Just wondering.
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Old 23-09-2009, 11:59 AM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

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Originally Posted by mjohnson84 View Post
sorry i have been downstairs. i dont want to argue wiv any1. he is in his crate now barking like hell and worse if im in the same room as him..
because he is young and wants to be with u....

...why do u keep him in the crate when ur there with him anyway?

A crate is good for the night or the times when u leave the house or are busy and cant look after the pup...

how many hrs during the whole day is he in the crate for?
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Old 23-09-2009, 12:00 PM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

IMO, crate training and toilet training are two separate things. The crate should not be used to toilet train as has been described above.
How long is he being left in his crate?
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Old 23-09-2009, 12:00 PM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

Ooh ok

right. Crate training yes make it feel as a positive environment for baby

Second of all, if its the toilet training issue, i would let baby out for a wee like every 20-30 minutes, plus after every feed, after a bit of play and after every nap. And always praise puppy when its done a mess outside

With reference to night time if puppy cries or barks at night when you've left him, leave him alone. He's crying for attention and he should learn its ok to be left alone at night. Ignore him he'll soon settle down and he'll learn ok they can't keep coming to me all the time.

Is this ok? Any questions?
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Old 23-09-2009, 12:02 PM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

You might find it useful to look for other threads on crate training, and see what other people have tried.

I see you are following a particular method, I must say though, it seems a bit rigid! I would suggest using shorter crate times, with more play/training games/cuddle time in between. The crate should be his rest area, and somewhere you can safely leave him when you go out. So if he's not happy in there, he will become anxious and unsettled. By giving him more interaction with you, and putting him in when he's really tired he will be more likely to accept it.

Do you cover the crate? It often works better if there's a dark cover on it, he'll be less distracted by what's going on around him, just leave the front uncovered so he doesn't feel cut off.


He really needs more more toilet breaks than it says there, say every two hours, then you can give him fewer or more as his routine develops. I don't suppose he's had his vaccinations yet, he's probably a bit young to take out, but when he is able to go for short frequent walks you should see an improvement, and you'll start to enjoy him more.

Keep asking questions, you will get some good advice on here, and do read other crate threads, it'll help!
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Old 23-09-2009, 12:04 PM
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Re: Help.. I love him but might have to get rid of him...Help please.....!

when i crate trained my collie she was only shut in the crate when we went out (which wasnt very often) and at night when we were in bed! the rest of the time the crate door was left open so she could go in and out when she wanted. she was always happy to go in her crate.xx
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