I don't care for flowermummies. :P

The fact is - as far you don't beat the dog hard - i never said to beat them til they poop themself. Hm the fact; dogs tell dogs of with nipping/biting and sound. Standing there for hours trying to do the doggie cutie want a treat thing is just not the best way to make 2 big strong dogs not pull. What i did with my dog (it was pulling like a madman when seeing a dog or cat) was simply a (not screaming) no and a light slap on its ass. (fyi im italian, my english stink).

Now she only pull out of happyness the first half km of every walk. But in the line were walking, not risking to get us both killed under a car.

I don't disagree to a point... I have successfully taught my 4 dogs ( all rescue's and one a stubborn, obstinate bulldog) to walk properly. I can walk all 4 together. Before hand, they would pull and pull, especially the bull dog and the stafi x, but a combination of determination, physical touch (not at all painful) the correct coller and maintaining my pack leader status and they are walk really well.

Your english is fine, better than my italian! x

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I wonder whether you would try to train a killer whale to jump through hoops by using punishment...

Funny thing is killer whales are trained with the cutie want a treat (fish) method. Even funnier still I regularly train big strong dogs to walk nice on a leash using the cutie will only get a treat thing when cutie walks nice.

Good dog training is about respectful two way communication, it's a team effort. There simply is no need to kick a dog CM style.

For the OP I would also suggest the following:

My Dog Pulls. What Do I Do? by Turid Rugaas

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"Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend."
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I agree with dogpositivetraining. Killerwhales are taught using reward based training, can you imagin trying to force them to do something they didn't want to do?

If a head halter works, great. But Don't forget to PRAISE!!! PRAISE the good behaviour because even the smallest of dogs can learn to tense up the neck muscles and lean into the halti, stopping it from working!

A while before I moved here, we had a 12stone rotti. Do you think I trained him to walk nicely by slapping him across the butt as suggested to me by another rotti(aggressive btw) owner? No. Me, being only 5ft2, there was no way I was getting that rotti to do anything he didn't want to do.
The only way to succesfully get a dog to walk to heel, is to make him WANT to BE there, not make him afraid not to be there!

You will probably have to walk your dogs seperately to begin with, I used a clicker and you could too if you had leads you can attach to your waist once both dogs are getting the idea that being next to you is good.
Many dogs simply do not 'get' what you want from them! With the rotti, he had never been lead walked apart from to the car and had been allowed to pull. he had no idea where I wanted him to be. As soon as he clicked what it was, and realised he got a tasty treat when his nose was level with my leg, he would nudge me sometimes to remind me he was there!

x

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Good point with the whales, but now were talking about <400pounds naval animals. :P Im not saying to beat em up, but a slap and strong heart is a nonhurtful shortcut to months and months of slow treats. (after my experience, my dog get treats to i just like to mix it abit.. and no i dont use "fysical" stuff anymore cause my dog is wellbehaved other then the growling at scared ppl problem).

And please dont misunderstand, im not saying BEATING THE DOG. A pimpslap on the butt of light light light force and a strong no (not needing to scream at the top of your loungs) doesnt hurt the dog at all.

Yes but it's still a form of bullying the dog into being where you want it to be!

I used to walk my flatmates very large gsd. He pulled and pulled and we all ended up with burns on our hands from him yanking the lead.
One night I was realy tired and had enough and I whacked him lightly on the nose with the handle, which made a loud slap noise as the handle hit it'self on his nose. It did stop him from yanking my hands off, but he was edgy about it. I felt bad for ages. It didn't cure him though, he was soon back to pulling again!

Dogs are far more likely to learn something if they get pleasure out of it.
Giving a dog treats for being next to you the dog will be happy to be there, and learn quickly.
Smacking the dog on the bum whenever he pulls does not teach him where you want him to be, but teaches him through something unpleasant where you don;t want him to be.

You could end up making the problem worse, make the learning progress longer, even end up with an agressive dog because you are bullying him!

There is no point in correction of that sort, reward based training is much nicer.

x

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-MY DOGS ARE NOT MY WHOLE LIFE- BUT THEY MAKE MY LIFE WHOLE-

Yeah true if you only use contact, but if you reward the dog greatly when it got it right i think it wont hurt most dogs. Sure you don't slap a chihuahua or other smaller breeds as it might be hard to control the force. But im talking big beast over 30kg.. Just tap it "hard" enough that it get your attention, i don't believe in a long stick with a carrot. Then when it stop pull after the tap, reward and profit. I'm not using aggresive force, merely showing my dominating place in the pack. (dog whisperer anyone).


edit. I'm also of the understanding that badlybehaved kids needs a flat hand now and then. Not hard, just enough til they sit and look at you with their cute eyes. (haha yeah really). The world is going to carebear, in 5years we might get PETA and childabuse social networks on our necks if we say no to our kids/pets. The differense is there though. Kids understand verbal things, but they do seem to go more and more in the direction of puppy awareness.

You are talking rubbish. Bad enough that you talk rubbish about dog training but talking rubbish about child-rearing is a step too far.

You really do come from a different planet don't you?? Kids are different to dogs completely you cannot compare teaching dogs to kids.
And both kids and dogs raised PROPERLY would NOT need a hand raised to them ATALL for teaching them.

You should not own dogs if you think that training a dog to heel you should slap it to tell it 'no' rather than being nice and using treats, you are trying to make a shortcut, and not in a nice way. Training to heel with treats does NOT take months and months if you do it Properly! It took me a week to train a 12 stone rotti who had never been lead walked before.

It does not matter how lightly you slap a dog, its still hitting it whether its to get attention or what, but you are using the slap as a correction, and we all know that dogs learn much faster with redirection! Stop giving out advice on how to bully a dog into doing what you want.

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People... you are forgetting that the OP is Italian, his/her english is not like ours. What I mean to say is that I think it is being taken the wrong way.

When she describes a "slap" to the dog, the op probably means "a distraction", this is not to cause any form of pain, or to punish the dog, but to stop the behaviour. I use this on my dogs quite a lot. It is not a slap or hit, merely a light tap to distract the dog.

The OP has a valid point about the world being pink and flurry and politically correct. Sometimes a child needs a light smack, it is perfectly reasonable and does not make her a bad dog owner for saying this. It just came out wrong.

A bit of understanding for her use of language......

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Lilly, Max, Henry and Sammy. The joys of my life!