he knows no different he thinks thats what you want him to do

Go for the preemtive strike then. If he is whining at a certain time, get up that little earlier and let him out before he has the chance to soil himself. You will have a much happier puppy for it, plus a toilet trained one.

Lol he just wants to play when he's in the Garden and run around like a maniac lol!!!
I will try all the tips, but i am wondering if he just wants the attention in the mornings and feels lonely??? lol

So basically when i see him going to mess near the back door i need to put him out straight away???

Yes. He needs to know outside is that place to go.

In my opinion, paper training just tells them that inside is acceptable.

If it is any help we are 5 weeks in with a new pup and it does get a bit better. Bailey is now going until 6am with an occasional wee break around 3am. I would love 6.30 but can't see him going that long.

we have two beagle puppies who are using paper by the back door when we are out in the day time. They were having lots of accidents in the lounge when we were watching tv etc, but we have picked up the 'signals' of them needing a toilet and take them both outside! (however they dont like the rain and refuse to go out in it ) they have now started heading towards the kitchen and back door on their own. For a while they were whining at about 5am but we left them and they now wake up at about 7! its hard when they are whining but they learn very quickly!

I've been watching this thread with interest for advice with my new puppy, and I think I've finally cracked it! She's been with us for only a week, but toilet training is coming on really well and she whines to be let out for a poo now (still need to watch her like a hawk for wees though ) never used paper, always took her out every hour/after waking up/after play/before or after meal times and loads of praise when she did it outside.

At night, it took me a while to work out when she needed to go and I would often wake up to her making lots of noise,go to see what's wrong and she'd soiled her crate. Having worked out by trial and error I got her up at 12.30 and 5.30 last night and finally she understands that I'm letting her out to poo and pee, then she goes back to her crate and back to sleep. She didn't like being shut in her crate and would cry a lot but we had a hallelujah moment last night - she went into her crate (I left the door open) in the evening for a snooze all by herself! Feel so pleased I know there will probably be more accidents but it's brilliant to see the process working, she's settling into a routine and I think it's going to work out fine.

Thank you all for your great advice!

It sounds like hes missing his mum. So he would have cleared his bedding up when he did his business and hes got you doing it now. I have four pups left out of a recent litter and they go out to the toilet but they will have accidents in the house. I tried paper but they like to rip it up..lol. I think the best thing to do is put his paper outside his bed and put him on it as soon as you see him tootying down or doing the poo dance. Being a jack he will learn quickly