No Karen Beattie!

I'm sat here laughing at your last post... sounds like me

I have to make a real effort at times and often get it wrong with owners who don't understand my methods. I guess I'm so passionate about dogs being understood that I find it hard when people humanise them too much. They get shirty with me because they often don't like looking that deeply at themselves.

I aplaud you for recognising these important aspects. It takes a strong person to see them and an even stronger one to set about changing them. You've seen such an improvement with your dogs and it will keep on improving. You recognise how much people can infuence their dogs behaviour and that's the key. It's that recognition that will make all the difference. You sound like a determined lady. Know that your dogs came to you to teach you lessons and to help you grow Inturn you can provide them with the best life possible.

You are both doing great. Don't worry when things go wrong because your dog will read this. Only concentrate on the positive things that happen that way your dog will move on quickly.

Speaking of wrongs... my louis had a off day today! Stole my purse today and strew the contents all over the paddock! Bugger

Morning Karen

I thought l had better check in case you were Karen Pryor as its like having a conversation with Cesar Milan. It just popped into my head. Anyway it's lovely having you helping me and Tootsies Mum as l know l would still be having major problems.

Hope Louis did'nt rip any money up? I once put £10 on a table years ago and then wondered what my dogs were ripping up!!!!! My husband said that you can get the money back (which l didn't by the way) but l wish l had framed the torn pieces as a reminder to just what dogs can do if you don't put things away.

I have recently lost 3 pairs of shoes to Schmoo who was teething. All my own fault though - l should have put them away!.

You must put some pictures of your dogs on here. I am useless with computers but l will tryto add mine.

Last nigh another quiet night. They woke at 6-00pm but another little pile of poo from Scamper. I think once Seiger wakes him up he just gets on with it before l can get downstairs.

Thanks so much Karen. Even DH is amazed that they have managed to settle so quickly. He thought they would howl all night and we would have to give in but now its brilliant. We can also stretch out in bed with out having to be careful that we don't squash a pup!

This morning Scamper even showed some enthusiasm for going out though he started trembling again when he spotted the lead.

We all trotted off and l suddenly realised that my body language was giving out the wrong signals. I was still very tired and slouching so l imagined that l was Cesar Milan and immediatley perked up and strode forward. I supose l should really show enthusiasm for the walk!

When l was on the return journey l actually bumped into a lady with children - one on her bike. I was pleased that neither pup made any sound at all or pulling on the lead. It was a very good experience for the little ones. Mind you they never tried to touch or talk to the dogs.

Schmoo is afraid of his own shadow when he is put. I occasionally do bump into a sweet old man who likes to tend his allotment but whenever he tries to give Schmoo a treat he is so scared that he backs off. The poor man can't bend down for the time it would take for Schmoo to think "l might take the food." Is there anything l can do to speed things up? I am afraid that Schmoo is so easily startled over anything for example tarpauling over a a pile of logs.

What is the best way to deal with that? Should l talk to him to reassure or will that reinforce the fear. When he pulls back on the lead should l pull him forward or let him do it? Do l completely ignore him.

I think he is displaying a bit of fear aggression as l said the other day he ran at some people barking and l have noticed that apart from today he does do that if he sees another dog or person in the distance. I also don't want Scamper to do this as he has'nt seen anything for the first 4 months, so he could easily copy this behaviour!

Anyway must go for now so look forward to hearing some more advice from you if you don't mind. ttfn xxx K

Not at all.
Keep moving forward always. timid dogs need a strong leader and by moving forward you express this. I wouldn't talk either. We do send the wrong message at the wrong time. Your right it will reinforce his fears.
I don't know who Karen Prior is? Many years ago I can across Cesar though. I'm a firm advocate of his methods. I tend not to promote a confrontational approach. Not because it doesn't work just I feel happier not putting my clients in and danger. Putting a dog on it's side does work and i do it myself but as Cesar would say the energy has to be right in the handler for the dog to submit. I find inexperienced people don't have this early on.
Schmoo will get over his jitters if you remain calm and strong. How you walk dogs is very important as youv'e recognised. strong confident body language and positive thoughts are a must. Worrying when you see a child or another dog has adverse effects. That's not to say don't be aware of the possible dangers, but keep in mind you are the pack leader.
It's hard if the man can't stay down for long. There's one method but it's not without its dangers so I'd like you to try this one first:
Explain to the man that your dogs very skittish. Tell him it would help if he couched down and if Schmoo doesnt come forward ask him to throw the treat near the dog. If he's does this each time he sees him Schmoo will start to associate him with food. Providing he eats the treat. But don't pick it up and give it yourself.
1. He'll think the treat came from you not the man.
2. if he's not eating it and being timid your rewarding him for his fears, compounding the problem.
Pick it up and say you'll give it to him when he does something good.

As for startling around objects ect... It's a case of repeating the exercise. That him past the object over and over he'll do too things.
1. get used to it after a few passes
2. Shut down through fear.
Number two sounds bad, he'll freeze but it's not that bad. He'll shut down and then give in as he sees you want move. He'll see that the object will not kill himso his brain will move forward and he'll rehabilitate himself. He hasn't had enough socialisation and objects scare him. It's your job to teach him they are safe. It can be a long road but don't think you have to fix him too fast. The Pack restructuring program will help him trust you and listen to you as more time passes. These habits will fade as he moves forwards with you.

As for the dog aggression and people charging.
Correct him with the leash as soon as he pricks this ears, puffs out his chest and steps forwards. You are the leader he's not allowed to do his. If this doesn't work Theres pet corrector. If he moves forward express the canister and correct his leash. I can see that being a timid dog you might think you shouldn't knock his confidence but he's displaying aggression and it's not exceptable. He's moving forward and that's not timidness. When you pass dogs and people express the can if he acts up again. Just use the spray for this problem though. We need to encourage him in other areas but correct him in this.
Your Right in thinking that he'll teach the others to behave this way. So walk them alone until you have a handle on Schmoo.

Good luck

Hi Kittysoo and Karen - I have been popping in and checking your thread but have been a bit busy with work so not had time to write up a proper reply. Its good to see you doing so well with your dogs - I have a loooooong way to go with Toots anyway I must go to bed - got be set off for 8 in the morning and I havent packed yet. Catch up next week. Have anice Easter weekend

An early Happy Easter to everyone especially Karen and TootsiesMum.

I hope l am not jinxing it but the night time problem is solved. All 3 mutts go to sleep with no problems at all. I wish they would sleep in a bit longer but at least it is getting lighter in the morning.

Scamper is definatly beginning to enjoy his walks. He certainly does'nt like the lead but and l do have to pull him out the door but as soon as he is in the front garden his little tail starts wagging.

I was late walking them today but l have been trying to aim their first walk around the time of the school run in the village. It is the only time of the day when there are people about. We only have about 40 children here but the lane is packed out with cars and children. We seem to walk through that with no problems. It seems to be when we are on our own and then others approach.

Anyway operation Get Over It Schmoo! is about to begin. I'll let you know how it's going as it will be ongoing for a quite a while l think.

A bit of history - when l got Schmoo he was 8 weeks and 2 days old so l thought that l would be ok. Whenever l went into our local market town - l carried him as he had only just started his innoculations. I let people fuss him but he was not enthusiastic just let them do it. I also stood like a muppet on the side of roads watching the traffic go by with him.

The first problem l had was when l went to our local vets puppy party. He was very scared of the dogs and just put up with the attention of the other owners, as we had a pass the puppy which meant each pup had to be held byother people and literally be touched all overy He was the only puppy there that would'nt join in and just let the other owners do what they wanted too. All the other puppies just wanted to lick our faces and were happy little souls.

As Schmoo was so small they let him come to the next puppy party. In the meantime l took him to town once a week but he was no better. I know this was probably down to me though as l am a bit of a hermit l think.

Anyway l know a lady who has a soft elderly retriever called Poppy that is very laid back, so l have decided to ask her if she would walk with me for short walks with Schmoo and then maybe Scamper. Her dog is very calm and l have never heard of any trouble. Her children will be on holiday for the next week but after that l will have to pluck up some courage and approach her.

It's a shame that there is'nt a list of good dog owners with placid dogs that you can pay to socialize our dogs with. I only have my mornings off and so the dogs walk then. My husband won't take them out when l am at work in the afternoon. At weekends or holidays l take them out 2 to 3 times a day. Most of the time when l am out l don't see a soul.

Anyway thats it for now - l'll be in touch.

PS Karen Pryor is someone who wrote a book about clicker training. When l have been on other sites, they always mention her. ttfn xxx Kittysoo

Oh I see, Hadn't heard of her till now.
Your doing wonderful. The progression is great and I can see your determined to crack this.
Tootsiemum your doing well too, Just look at what Kittysoo has achieved in a short time... You can do it too

Its me again - hope you all had a lovely Easter. I had a really busy one - (my Dad has dementia and keeps deprograming the tv- so we are always running over there!)

Anyway despite feeling that l could sleep for a week and have no energy - the dogs now go to sleep with no trouble. They still wake up far too early for my liking though!

Scamper actually wags his tail when he realises that he is going out for a walk so is feeling a little excited. The sight of the lead makes him tremble though and his body language looks afraid. You'd think l beat the hell out of him with it!!!!

I am still perserveering with them all though. Today was'nt good though. I did take all 3 together as l could'nt face 3 separate walks. Scamper and Schmoo dived under a farm gate and l was very lucky that the sheep in the field were quite far off or l would have had trouble. I called them and ran off in the opposite direction and Schmoo came ALMOST immediately with Scamper a good bit behind. On top of that 2 runners came my way and l just managed to get Seiger on a lead. However Schmoo and Scamper did the bark and chase thing. I shook a rattle bottle and Schmoo stopped and stayed with me but Scamper gave a little look around and ran on right at the heals of one of them - enough to make him look round.

I was as rattled as the bottle l can tell you. I put the other 2 on a lead and headed off for home. After a couple of minutes convincing myself that l had had enough - l snapped out of it. I know that my tiredness actually made me walk slow and slouched and l was mentally not really with the dogs. I had lost control before l had even put their leads on. I did'nt want to go out for a walk. Really l should'nt have gone as it wasn't fair on the mutts either.

Anyway l am pulling myself together as l type. Tomorrow l am going to go and see the lady with the placid dog and see if l can arrange a meet up with the 2 little ones on a one to one basis with Poppy (old soft retriever). Later l am going to find another training class. DH thought the last one was a bit of a waste of time in the few lessons that we were there. I also seem to be reading a lot about training but doing very little. So l need to raise my game quite a bit.

Well got to go now and do something positive before l go in to work.

As Arnie says - "I'll be back"!

Hi Kittysoo - I havent managed to post in a while either. What with Easter, my DD is home for a few weeks and I have decided to gut the house. 2 trips to the tip and charity shop later my house is a lot lighter. I have 2 large tins of paint calling me too but still need to do a bit more de cluttering before I start painting. Anyway less of that. You sound as if you are doing really well - you can not be in control all of the time till they are trained a bit more. You are certainly going in the right direction so dont be too hard on yourself. I took Tootsie to a dog training group for a few months when we first got her but it wasnt a good group so we gave up - also Tootsie decided to do all of her business in the hall that it was held in. Honestly you wouldnt think such a small dog had so much in her On our walk this evening Tootsie did her business and I was getting a bag out of my pocket but didnt see where 'it' landed so I was combing through the grass looking for it and Toots was off lead and I didnt notice that 2 dogs were coming from both directions. She tried to go off to meet one of the dogs but luckily I had just been doing some re call with her so she came right back when I called It has been hard keeping her off the furniture with my DD at home but she has started to learn her place. Need to start training my DD now

Sorry for the delay in updating my situation.

Well Scamper is fine going out now and thoroughly enjoys it. Thank goodness l did'nt take the vets advice on this one.

I am noticing that he is getting more dominent towards the others. If he does'nt want to play he lets them know. Also he is getting to the chewy stage. When he gives me a kiss he is getting a bit toothy, so that will have to be checked. Also he is starting to hump Schmoo. When he is 6 months old he is definately losing the family jewels. I have no doubt that in time he will be top dog but l do want a couple of bitches later on and l have been told that bitches are usually top dog in packs.

Schmoo has never really liked grooming as he has a Yorkie coat and is quite long. He would always chew the brush and comb and l had to always distract him with something else to chew. l now stick him on the edge of a chair and straddle him when l am doing it and he seems to have settled down a lot- l guess its all part if the pack leader thing again.

Seiger still won't leave Scamper alone if he's awake. He ignores Schmoo all the time and seems to only want to play with the other one. However Scamper does'nt like to constantly have his head in Seigers jaws.

The night time sleeps are fine now but l think that Seiger wakes up with the birds as this morning he barked at 5-10 which was just after l heard the birds. I am obviously getting used to the early starts in the day - l think l am tuning into them just like l did when my children were babies! The only thing is about half an hour of being up - l start dozing with the 2 little ones lying on me.

My next door neighbours lodger had a real go at me the other night. DH has to leave the dogs at home to come and pick me up from work and so he was out for an hour. According to her next door Seiger started barking as soon as we left and that started the other 2 off. The little ones screech when they get going so it must sound awful.

I know that we should stop it but it's hard. I bought Seiger one of those collars that make a high pitch tone but it was useless. DH now leaves the tv on and turns it to Kerrang which if anyone has'nt heard of it - is a heavy metal channel! Any suggestions would be helpful bearing in mind that relations with the neighbour is at an all time low. Luckily on the other side of the house is a field so if the sheep are annoyed - l'm non the wiser!

Anyway got to walk the dogs now so had better go. xxx K

Hi,

Please could you let me know more about the "putting dogs on their sides", I have never heard of this and am very interested in what it does.