There are definitely things you can do, I am doing a drive training program at the moment - but it takes time and very few trainers will be able to help you effectively. I know people who have also trained it with low stim e-collars, which don't bother me as the low stim training is not painful, but because I am also training for obedience I want to work with the drive.

Without wanting to be harsh, the fact is that you have a beagle, a high drive scent hound, the instinct to follow their nose has been built into them for centuries. I would NEVER let my beagle off leash unless in a secure area, or an area we have proofed for in training for the very reason you experienced.

I know of beagles who have followed their noses across the road and been hit by cars, it is not something that you risk with a scent hound irregardless of how much they enjoy being off leash.

If my beagle gets on a scent she literally cannot hear me calling her, because she is in something called 'drive peak' where her brain is working from the lower cortext, the medulla, which is why they are so unresponsive to commands - they are 110% completely focused on the scent which is what they have been bred to do. My beagle actually gets surprised when she realises I am standing near her - when she knows I am there she has excellent recall. But if she is on a scent there is nothing I can do to disrupt her when she is in drive peak. This is why I am doing drive based training so that we are putting the control back in during those situations.

I would never try to train OUT instinct. Why even bother having a beagle if that is your goal? And IMO it is impossible to train out an instinct that has been selectively bred into a dog for centuries. I wouldn't risk it as for me, it doesn't offer enough relability as using the drive to my advantage, the instinct will always be there no matter how much you try to over power it.

Hi
The scent of deer is particularly alluring to hounds/dogs to the point that packs of hounds trained to hunt other animals will sometimes 'riot' after deer.

I am involved with homing retired trailhounds and my advice to new owners would be to train recall in open spaces rather than in woodland. Woods have lots more interesting smells and a dog can go out of sight and earshot very quickly.

A friend is involved in beagle rescue and comparing her beagle experience with my trailhound experience, I think beagles seem more likely to have poor recall (sorry!). Most hounds that we home can be trained to good recall given time. My friend has had some beagles for years that can not be trusted offlead.

My only advice would be to start recall training afresh, first on a short lead then on a longer line. Below is a copy of our training leaflet if it helps at all.
Cant promise it will work, the main problem may be that now he has experienced that lovely sense of freedom, it may take a long time to train it out of him.
Good lick!

Training Recall

Main points at a glance:

Start training in the house by calling your hound from another room at mealtimes.

All initial outdoor training should be on a lead or training line – do not let your hound be the one deciding when they will return.

Always use their name to get their attention followed by the recall command.

Always be consistent by using a key recall word, said in a clear, firm voice.

Begin to allow your hound off lead in a secure area, only after they have shown that they are responding well to the recall word whilst still on a lead.

Always give lots of praise and a tasty treat to positively train your hound.

Once trained, if they start to ignore you, go back a stage, and pop a training line back on them.

Be prepared to always have treats with you to positively reinforce good behaviour.

Training recall is one of the first things you will want to do with your new hound. Some hounds are very good right from the start but it still pays to teach them properly.

You must train your hound to recall before letting them go off lead. Leaving it up to them to decide when they are going to return is not a good idea and bad habits quickly set in.

Once trained, you can enjoy walks knowing that your hound will come back promptly when called.

Remember that in their racing life, trailhounds are lined up on a fellside with other hounds and released to run up to 10 miles over the fells on their own! Apart from people positioned at crossing points on roads, they race completely unaided. This requires a huge degree of independence on the part of a hound.

For training you will need:

Treats - a hip bag is useful to keep them in. Training treats should be extra tasty, such as small pieces of sausage or cheese.

A normal lead to start with, then progress to a longer training line. If your hound is boisterous and liable to run to the end of the line and jolt its neck, attach it to a harness instead of a collar.

A recall word. One word that hounds are called in to at the end of a race is HERE, so you may want to use that. Some hounds are called in to a whistle so you may decide to train with one.

Calling their name will get their attention initially but the recall word or whistle is what you are teaching them to return to so always use it, as consistency is very important. Use a firm and clear tone of voice.

First lesson

To initially teach the command word, place your hound on a lead in front of you. With a small treat in your hand, entice your hound towards you as you run backwards using their name followed by your chosen recall word. When they reach you, put your hand on their collar as you give them the treat and lots of praise. This ensures that they do not grab the treat and then try to run off.

This level is very easy and you can constantly reinforce this whilst on a walk.

Progressing to the next level

When you feel your hound understands what you are asking and is responding well, progress to a longer training line. You will still be in control but your hound will begin to get a greater sense of freedom on a longer line.

At this stage, you are instilling in them the habit of automatically returning first time so make it easier by calling them when they are least distracted by other things.
If they come straight back when called, give them lots of praise and a treat.

If they do not respond, gently tug and, if necessary, reel them in with the training line whilst using your recall command (still in the same tone of voice) and again lots of praise and a treat.

Begin to call them when they are distracted by other things. Make sure they get lots of praise and a treat so they can see it was worth their while coming back!

Do this again and again over a period of weeks and see how well they are responding before considering the next stage.

They have to understand that every single time you call them they will come back, whether by their choice or by you reeling them in. They will also learn that returning earns them a treat.

The next step

When they are responding well every time, find a safe area to let them go and progress from there.

If they regress, put the lead back on again and continue training as before. Even if this takes weeks, do persevere as it will pay off in the long run.

Never punish or tell off your hound for not returning. Coming back must always be a good experience for them.

Gradually, you will only give the treat when they come straight back – you would always give lots of praise but treats only after first call. Eventually, you may progress to only occasionally giving treats but you should always be prepared to have pockets full of crumbs and dried up bits of sausage – but that is a small price to pay for having a well behaved hound!

A few extra things to consider:

Enlist the help of someone with a dog with good recall as your hound will enjoy racing back alongside another dog.

If you feed lots of treats on a walk, scale down the morning/evening meal accordingly as you do not want your hound to become obese.

When your hound is allowed off lead, if they come back to you uncalled, always give them a treat and praise as it means they are checking in with you and it should be encouraged.

Hi. As you have read you have picked a challenging breed. They were bred for tracking purposes and, in my opinion, it is very difficult to "train" them out of it.

My recommendation is to try a spray collar. I use them on a couple of my dogs for various reasons. They are not harmful, but are also not cheap. There has been a thread on here quite recently about them. Find the thread and you can see what people have said.

Best of luck
Vicky

Anyone tried Petsafe Remote Spray Trainer? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page

Many beagle owners will not let them off their leads because of recall problems - they can cover vast distances when they pick up the scent! They can go for 30 miles!!! NOT experienced with beagles but something to be aware. Maybe it would be worth using a tracking lead to give some freedom with the knwledge that you always have a hold on him. That said good luck with the trainer. But he is only doing what is natural for him to do
DT

Just to add to my previous post - I didn't find teaching the recall command difficult with my hound at all, she picked it up very quickly. It was getting the recall reliable, and working out how to disrupt her when she was on a scent so she was actually aware that I was calling her.

When she is aware I am calling her she has a great, very speedy recall, excellent focus etc - but if she has her nose to the ground on a serious scent then the instinct has taken over and she's not even aware that I am near her, or calling her, all her brain is able to focus on is following the scent.

I agree with DT's suggestion of putting the dog on a tracking lead, it is by far the safer option for now.

That's my experience too - Beagles are VERY easy to teach recall....or anything else for that matter. It's just getting it reliable that's hard. Neither of mine have ever gone after anything alive. We avoid letting them off-lead in open countryside and we avoid times of day when foxes are active in the park. We've therefore never had to contend with a dog hot on a trail. But we do have major problems 'cutting through' when they go into a 'sniffy' mode - or even chase mode (i.e wanting to chase another fast dog). I'm quite certain we've only ever experienced half-hearted sniffing - that's bad enough!

Having said that, I'm not sure getting the dog on a tracking lead is the best way to go. Certainly better than letting it loose in open country side. But my experience with my two is that they're much better behaved if they get off-lead every day. Miss a day or two and they're a bit hyper when they do get off again. If a dog generally has good recall (and this one sounds like it does when there's no deer in the equation) then my inclination would be to find a safe, enclosed space that's free from deer.

Another idea that we're having some success with - A beagle that's wanting to chase his buddies or follow a scent won't even notice a lump of freshly cooked chicken held under it's nose. That tells us that the 'chase' or 'following the scent' is a considerably higher reward than the tastiest of food. When teaching recall you want to always offer the highest possible reward. We'll often start out a walk with the dog on a long training lead. We recall the dog and if it comes quickly it gets a tasty treat AND an off-lead run. We've reached the stage with this where our dog can be going absolutely balistic on the end of it's lead. It doesn't hear us calling and it doesn't notice if you stick food under it's nose. However, we use our 'emergency recall' word (described in my earlier post) and the dog instantly turns and runs to us. It then gets a treat AND gets to go after whatever it was going crazy about. So in the dogs mind "Ignore the command and I'm stuck at the end of this lead going nowhere. Obey the command and I get a tasty treat AND I get to do what I want most in all the world". We haven't tried it off-lead yet (I suspect it wouldn't work yet - some part of our dogs brains are aware that when attached to us there is a greater need to listen to us!), but on-lead we are managing to cut through and get the dog to hear us. But obviously the important point here is that we aren't in open country side. We're in a park that's about as safe and enclosed as you can get and has limited scents to follow.

Beaches (despite being quite smelly to us) are pretty uninteresting to Beagles from a tracking point of view. They run and chase, but don't follow scents....except perhaps the occasional set of hoof prints down the beach.

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Scarter - just looked at your website and the pics of beagle racing look fantastic.
That reminded me of a group that get together and take their beagles drag hunting on aniseed trails. They are pet beagles that just meet up throughout the winter for a day in the countryside. Last winter I went along with my trailhound. She was invited to join in (as she took part in hound trailing races before I adopted her) and it was so funny as she outran the beagles easily and on one run, she took them round the course twice!

Maybe hollyhocks should think about finding something similar for Alfie to channel his hunting instinct?
The beagle group I followed are here...
http://www.thebeagleclub.org/working%20section.htm
and here is a report on Lotty's day outy with them!
http://www.thebeagleclub.org/micheldean_301108.htm

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Hi everyone,

Thanks everyone for the recent comments, sorry I should have posted something before now but life with a Beagle always seems to hectic!

We went to the Hound Day at Crufts and were lucky enough to speak to a lot of experienced Beagle owners and we very quickly came to the conclusion that as you've all suggested, letting Alf off the lead everywhere and anywhere is really a no go. Instead, we are now very selective about when he actually goes off the lead, and it's usually only when he's with other dogs who are reliable to return that we risk it!

We are very lucky that we have an enclosed dog field within out local country park, Alf's recall when there are no scents around is brilliant, so we are very lucky in that respect. He's very loyal to us and never strays too far, apart from obviously when a deer is around. Since his last adventure, we've had no more disappearing acts so def an improvement!

Anyway, the best thing about Crufts was finding out about the Beagle Club, and yes, as one user suggested, we took Alfie drag hunting! It was absolutely fantastic and he loved every minute of it! The season runs Sept - March so unfortunately we only got to take him to the last one of the season and now have to wait until Sept to go again. It was great to meet so many other Beagles and so many great owners who gave us a lot of advice.

You can see him if you look under album 10, Blewbury, photos 28 and 56 show him in all his glory!

MAGIX | Beagle Drag Meets

I've added some more recent photos of Alf to his album, I love my beautiful boy so much!

H x

Hi
That is brilliant! Glad you have found solutions to manage Alfie's independent streak while still allowing him to 'follow his nose'.

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