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Dog Training and Behaviour Discuss dog training and behaviour problems in this section. Are you having problems with your dogs behaviour? Then submit your problems and get help from other members. Do you have some excellent dog training advice? then submit your details here to help others.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 15-05-2012, 02:45 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

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Originally Posted by disconfigured View Post
We don't take a ball with us anyway, we go to playing fields to walk her, and other owners have balls with their dogs - she joins in. We always take her places where there are other people - either the playing fields or dog walking woods etc. Always other people and other dogs, which to be fair, is best for Jodie as she does love others just has become possessive other sticks and balls.

If I have the ball, she doesn't jump or anything, she sits (if I ask her to) and waits for me to throw it. If I tell her that enough is enough, she gives up and walks off.

I should add that she only does this strange behaviour with other less dominant dogs than her (before this, there wouldn't have been any! She was that submissive) - she wouldn't dare turn on a dog which she knows is more dominant.
You said she had become aggressive surrounding the ball- HERS or another's, so excuse my confusion as to the fact that you DO take a ball with you.

IMO this is a situation of the other dog biting yours waiting to happen.... You dog steams in, steals something belonging to another dog, and then has a pop when that dog tries to get THEIR ball back, if you meet a dog who is inclined to get their ball back no matter what, your dog will get bitten. I watched this happen to my dog when he would not redeem HIS ball to mate of his, was not pretty and resulted in a trip to the vet- these dogs knew each other well.
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Old 15-05-2012, 03:17 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

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Originally Posted by Lexiedhb View Post
You said she had become aggressive surrounding the ball- HERS or another's, so excuse my confusion as to the fact that you DO take a ball with you.

IMO this is a situation of the other dog biting yours waiting to happen.... You dog steams in, steals something belonging to another dog, and then has a pop when that dog tries to get THEIR ball back, if you meet a dog who is inclined to get their ball back no matter what, your dog will get bitten. I watched this happen to my dog when he would not redeem HIS ball to mate of his, was not pretty and resulted in a trip to the vet- these dogs knew each other well.
Oh sorry, I meant she becomes aggressive around her ball in the garden (if another dog is here too) and has became aggressive lately around other dogs balls (silly thing, doesn't realise it isn't hers!).

As I've previously mentioned, she wouldn't dare do anything to a dog which is more dominant than her - she only does this behaviour with dogs which are less submissive than her (which, previously, there wouldn't have been any). I understand that she is bringing the situation of being bitten on herself, but she has only ever started to do this with less dominant dogs and is still giving the ball up to more dominant (or rather, she doesn't even play with more dominant dogs - she ignores them).

All I'm wondering is how this sudden behaviour change has come about, I'm not exactly sitting back letting all this happen - she is corrected the minute she takes a dogs ball now that this behaviour has happened. We're, in future, not going to allow her to play ball with another dog as she has no problem simply playing with them, it's when possessions are involved.
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Old 15-05-2012, 03:20 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

So she has access to toys whenever she wants and chews whenever she wants, is an only dog and is learning that sharing isn't part of the vocabulary.

What is she like in the home? Does she bring toys to you to play? Does she take toys away when she has had enough? Does she take her chews to a certain place i.e. easily defendable against other dogs should other dogs be around (I know they won't but she may do this just in case)? Does she show any signs of disgruntlement when you remove her toys or chews?

It's tough trying to interpret this across as we can't see the dog doing what it does.
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Old 15-05-2012, 03:27 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

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Originally Posted by hutch6 View Post
So she has access to toys whenever she wants and chews whenever she wants, is an only dog and is learning that sharing isn't part of the vocabulary.

What is she like in the home? Does she bring toys to you to play? Does she take toys away when she has had enough? Does she take her chews to a certain place i.e. easily defendable against other dogs should other dogs be around (I know they won't but she may do this just in case)? Does she show any signs of disgruntlement when you remove her toys or chews?

It's tough trying to interpret this across as we can't see the dog doing what it does.
She has never been an incredibly playful dog, when she comes home from a walk, she is playful but that is the only time. She does, in these instances, bring toys to play with and walks away when she doesn't want to play any more. Her chews always end up in her bed (behind the sofa). She has only ever growled at me once, when I was near her food and after being corrected hasn't dared do it again - other than this, (which was a year or so ago) she hasn't seemed bothered by her toys or chews being removed.

I understand. We have the same problem, and we live with her. It is as though we have two different dogs!!

She is loyal outside, with this behaviour being her only aggressive behaviour.

However, inside, she refuses to come see anyone (unless we have food, and even then she peeks her head out and watches.. she doesn't beg.) or if she wants to play.
When my boyfriend is over, she willingly sits/lays with him and gives him alot of attention, but with anyone living inside the household it's a different story completely. Even when she knows after being brushed/getting a tick out of her, she will get a treat, she doesn't like either of these things happening!
She's incredibly intelligent (she learns commands within a day), yet seems confused
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Old 15-05-2012, 03:42 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

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Originally Posted by disconfigured View Post
Oh sorry, I meant she becomes aggressive around her ball in the garden (if another dog is here too) and has became aggressive lately around other dogs balls (silly thing, doesn't realise it isn't hers!).

As I've previously mentioned, she wouldn't dare do anything to a dog which is more dominant than her - she only does this behaviour with dogs which are less submissive than her (which, previously, there wouldn't have been any). I understand that she is bringing the situation of being bitten on herself, but she has only ever started to do this with less dominant dogs and is still giving the ball up to more dominant (or rather, she doesn't even play with more dominant dogs - she ignores them).

All I'm wondering is how this sudden behaviour change has come about, I'm not exactly sitting back letting all this happen - she is corrected the minute she takes a dogs ball now that this behaviour has happened. We're, in future, not going to allow her to play ball with another dog as she has no problem simply playing with them, it's when possessions are involved.
Ah I see! Happens all to often with regards to possessions. Balls at home are YOURS, she only gets to play with them on your terms, she must LEAVE it when you ask her to, if not the game ends instantly! No chasing her round. I found swapping the ball for a treat works well, or another ball of equal value.

I would do as you are with regards to strange dogs if they are playing with a toy..... she does ot join in.
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Old 15-05-2012, 03:52 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

I have run this through my head and even I think it is bizarre but here goes.

She has access to her toys and chews all day - her possessions - and will start a game (bringing you the toy) and end the game (taking the toy away) to HER bed which is behind the sofa - secure as has a solid back so can be easily defended on only four fronts ().
Your boyfriend isn't a regular in the household so he is a break from the norm, a distraction and due to her having control of her possessions whenever she wants she may be lavishing attention on him as she wants to be the centre of attention (a bit like a spoiled child).
She doesn't take kindly to being brushed etc because she doesn't like it and because she has control over her possessions then she wants to control access to her (will only come if you have food).

Sounds daft doesn't it?

For a week as a trial I would take her out for a walk and whilst she is out get someone to pick up all of her toys and chews and put them in a cupboard that is not in the immediate vacinity of where she has access to i.e. an internal door to open before you get to the cupboard so a bedroom drawer is ideal.
You can now decide when play time is (go get a toy from the cupboard) and end play (don't wait for her to take the toy to her bed but when she is eager to play end the game with a cue - I use "That'll do" - and put the toy back out of reach) and you can do the same with chews but just watch her with the chews to begin with.

I could be way off but it does seem like she is acting like a spoilled attention seeking child
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 15-05-2012, 04:15 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hutch6 View Post
I have run this through my head and even I think it is bizarre but here goes.

She has access to her toys and chews all day - her possessions - and will start a game (bringing you the toy) and end the game (taking the toy away) to HER bed which is behind the sofa - secure as has a solid back so can be easily defended on only four fronts ().
Your boyfriend isn't a regular in the household so he is a break from the norm, a distraction and due to her having control of her possessions whenever she wants she may be lavishing attention on him as she wants to be the centre of attention (a bit like a spoiled child).
She doesn't take kindly to being brushed etc because she doesn't like it and because she has control over her possessions then she wants to control access to her (will only come if you have food).

Sounds daft doesn't it?

For a week as a trial I would take her out for a walk and whilst she is out get someone to pick up all of her toys and chews and put them in a cupboard that is not in the immediate vacinity of where she has access to i.e. an internal door to open before you get to the cupboard so a bedroom drawer is ideal.
You can now decide when play time is (go get a toy from the cupboard) and end play (don't wait for her to take the toy to her bed but when she is eager to play end the game with a cue - I use "That'll do" - and put the toy back out of reach) and you can do the same with chews but just watch her with the chews to begin with.

I could be way off but it does seem like she is acting like a spoilled attention seeking child
In regards to thinking she is acting like a child, you're right - she looks sad all the time, for no reason, like shes sulking, for no reason!

She starts games yes, and ends them, yes but rarely takes her toys with her, she just picks herself up and walks away - to her hideout spot behind the sofa. It's difficult to start a game with her myself, she doesn't seem interested, but I can easily end a game if I wish (she just usually gets bored before me!!).

She definitely goes to my boyfriend for attention, but to be fair, if she stopped being a sulky child she would get the attention from me! I'm longing for her to come lay with me or even sit with me, but she refuses.

Thanks for the feedback, you've seem to have hit the nail on the head in regards to being a child! I'd love to get a dog psychologists point of view though, from actually watching her behaviour but I think she'd act completely different if someone else were around! Like a child! Haha!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 15-05-2012, 05:28 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

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Originally Posted by disconfigured View Post
Fearfulness could be a factor - she isn't very forward at home. We've never hurt her, but she's very much hide behind a sofa, refusing to come out unless another person has arrived or it's time for a walk. She's very confusing, for a dog. She never used to be like that when she was a puppy, we held her as much as we could and socialised her well, but I guess she's a shy one.
I think you've cracked it. She's a fearful dog. The idea of submissive/dominant is largely putting you on the wrong track in my opinion. This isn't a sudden behaviour change - it's been a long time coming by the sound of it.

I think you may need to do some counter conditioning with her around the things she is afraid of and, if you're interested, maybe look up dominance theory and why it sets people on the wrong track when trying to understand their dog.

The confusing part is probably the dominance/sumbission ideas that are muddying the waters. Have a look at this video.

Sorry = that's not the right video. I'll find a better one.

Last edited by doggiepal; 15-05-2012 at 05:32 PM..
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 15-05-2012, 05:44 PM
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Re: Our submissive dog is turning aggressive!!

How to speak dog by Stanley Coren is a good book about dog body language and will help you understand your dog better.

I can't find the video I wanted. I'll try again later. Sorry about that!
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