Pet Forums Community

Go Back   Pet Forums Community > Dog Forums > Dog Training and Behaviour

Dog Training and Behaviour Discuss dog training and behaviour problems in this section. Are you having problems with your dogs behaviour? Then submit your problems and get help from other members. Do you have some excellent dog training advice? then submit your details here to help others.

Registered users don't see this ad - Register Now (It's free!)
Like Tree20Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:43 PM
sid&kira's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ipswich
Posts: 3,748
Images: 25
sid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of light
retraining a DA dog

I need help

Diesel is no longer good with other dogs. He is fine with my pack though thankfully, so that is not an issue.

He was fine until I took him to the dog park, where he freaked out, he got stressed very quickly around all the dogs and I ended up getting someone to come and pick him up (i had kira at the park too). while at the park he was much better if we walked around (muzzled and on a lead), he still wouldnt greet nicely but he wasnt lunging for them. He shook and his eyes went red and he was panting even though it was cold

Since then he has gone for every dog we've met while out walking, he is kept on a flexi lead, though not muzzled as i think it causes him additional stress, which isnt going to help us. The size of dog doesnt matter, today he initially greeted a small poodle well, but then after a few seconds of sitting nicely he just lunged at it! He also tried to get to a jrt while standing outside a shop

I've been watching his body language, and he fixates on the dog, and as we get closer he crouches. I really struggle to break this fixation.

I dont know what do it, so far i'll admit i havent really done anything except keep him on a lead as I didnt want to admit it was a real issue

I just want to sort it out, but i dont know how to go about it, I dont want an agressive dog and if we knew he was like this (we were told he was very friendly to everyone and all dogs) we would not have taken him on

can anyone help me? i want to try and work on this myself before calling in a professional as i really cant afford to!
__________________
Grey - Siberian Husky
Kira - Siberian Husky
Keyusha - Siberian Husky
Diesel - Staffy X
Reply With Quote
Registered users don't see this ad - Register Now (It's free!)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:42 PM
Pupcakes's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bath, England
Posts: 1,186
Pupcakes is just really nicePupcakes is just really nicePupcakes is just really nicePupcakes is just really nicePupcakes is just really nicePupcakes is just really nice
Re: retraining a DA dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post
I need help

Diesel is no longer good with other dogs. He is fine with my pack though thankfully, so that is not an issue.

He was fine until I took him to the dog park, where he freaked out, he got stressed very quickly around all the dogs and I ended up getting someone to come and pick him up (i had kira at the park too). while at the park he was much better if we walked around (muzzled and on a lead), he still wouldnt greet nicely but he wasnt lunging for them. He shook and his eyes went red and he was panting even though it was cold

Since then he has gone for every dog we've met while out walking, he is kept on a flexi lead, though not muzzled as i think it causes him additional stress, which isnt going to help us. The size of dog doesnt matter, today he initially greeted a small poodle well, but then after a few seconds of sitting nicely he just lunged at it! He also tried to get to a jrt while standing outside a shop

I've been watching his body language, and he fixates on the dog, and as we get closer he crouches. I really struggle to break this fixation.

I dont know what do it, so far i'll admit i havent really done anything except keep him on a lead as I didnt want to admit it was a real issue

I just want to sort it out, but i dont know how to go about it, I dont want an agressive dog and if we knew he was like this (we were told he was very friendly to everyone and all dogs) we would not have taken him on

can anyone help me? i want to try and work on this myself before calling in a professional as i really cant afford to!
I have the same problem with Charlie, if he was off lead, he will just stare, then crouch over like a Collie and just lie and wait, then when the other dog comes over, he springs up like a jack in the box, very stiff and rigid. Then it either goes one of 2 ways. Play or fight.

Does he like squeaky toys? I find the high pitched noise of them breaking the silence is enough to get Charlie out of that solid gaze. Then maybe you could give him treats once youve got his attention and he's being good? The only danger I warn you of that is though, other dogs charging over to try and get the toy too as has happened to me before.

Sorry I cant be of much help, I'm sure in past posts there is some great advice suited for your situation and other more experienced members can come and advise you too

xxx
sid&kira and Rottiefan like this.
__________________

Dottie & Charlie.

http://www.dogstardaily.com Fantastic site full of great information.

http://www.dogsinneedofspace.co.uk/ goodvic2's excellent site for dogs like mine!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:42 PM
leashedForLife's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: off the Chesapeake Bay in USA
Posts: 11,350
leashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant future
Lightbulb B-mod for a Dog-Aggro or dog-reactive dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post

Diesel is no longer good with other dogs. He's fine with [our family-dogs], thankfully, so that's not an issue.

He was fine until I took him to the dog park, where he freaked-out... got stressed very quickly around
all the dogs, & I [had] someone... come & pick him up (i had Kira [there], too).
While at the park he was much better if we walked around (muzzled & on a lead), he still wouldn't greet nicely
but he wasn't lunging for them. He shook & his eyes went red, & he was panting altho it was cold.
did U introduce him to the box-muzzle [presuming it was a BASKET, not a 'tube' or fabric one?],
& habituate it as a happy-thing, before be wore it at the dog-park?

a muzzle, once happily habituated, does not raise the dog's stress; U can go back & re-introduce it,
change the anxious feelings for relaxed & even happy anticipation, & start over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post

Since then he's gone for every dog we've met while out walking, he's kept on a flexi... though not muzzled,
as i think it causes him additional stress, which isn't going to help...
if U suspect he may snap at or frankly bite another dog, the muzzle is to protect U from liability,
& him from legal repercussions - like euthanasia. If U think he MAY attack another dog, i'd opt to
re-introduce the muzzle properly, & carefully habituate it as a PREDICTOR of good things to come.
both of U will be safer, as will Ur wallet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post

The [dog's] size doesnt matter, today he initially greeted a small poodle well, but then after a few seconds
of sitting nicely, he just lunged at [her / him]! He also tried to get to a JRT while standing outside a shop.

I [watch] his body language, & he fixates on the dog... as we get closer, he crouches. I really struggle to break
this fixation.
LOOK AT THAT is a specific technique to teach a dog a default to look to the handler when cued
environmentally by the presence of their [soon-to-be former] trigger: they see, hear or smell a dog?
they LOOK to the handler for praise & rewards.

See UTube for many videos, search for 'control unleashed', 'Look at that', LAT, or CU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post

I don't know what [to] do, so far... i haven't really done anything except keep him on a lead, as I didn't want
to admit it was a real issue

I just want to sort it out, but i don't know how to go about it; I don't want an aggressive dog...
if [we'd known]... (we were told he was very friendly to everyone & all dogs) we wouldn't have taken him on.
Don't give up yet -

CALMATIVES can help enormously, see this post for What, When, How, etc -
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

the book 'Click to Calm' is an excellent DIY manual, applicable to any reactive issue.
It's important to realize that most dog-aggro dogs are afraid of strange dogs -
they're not just mindlessly nasty, they're frightened & aren't doing this on purpose; they simply want
the other dogs to go away, & leave them alone. It's very stressful & upsetting to them.

many dog-reactive or dog-aggro dogs can improve enormously; keeping him UNDER threshold is key,
as is making progress only at the dog's own pace: Don't set deadlines or try to hustle him, take the time
to make sure he's comfortable at any one step before U raise the criterion, reduce the distance, ask him
to ignore barking dogs at a closer range, etc. Consistent & compassionate wins!
__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:03 PM
leashedForLife's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: off the Chesapeake Bay in USA
Posts: 11,350
leashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant futureleashedForLife has a brilliant future
Thumbs up cutting visual stim down to tolerable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post

I [watch] his body language, & he fixates on the dog... as we get closer he crouches.
I really struggle to break this fixation.
a staring-contest which then erupts into an intimidation display [hackles, lunges, barks, growl-barks, etc]
is a common chain of behaviors.

a CALMING CAP [manufactured by Premier Pet Products] is a simple light cloth mask, like a horse's fly-mask,
which makes more-distant movements & objects fuzzy - the dog's visual stimuli are reduced, since s/he can't
clearly distinguish what's there in the distance, altho close objects are easily seen; the dog won't trip,
stumble into furniture, fall on stairs, etc, but cannot see a dog 50-ft away clearly enuf to react.

Bo in his calming cap | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

there was an excellent story on Flickr with photos, of a manic Aussie who barked nonstop,
leaped at passing vehicles, lunged at trucks, etc; they used a Calming-Cap, & he was able to lie down
during a 3-state move across the USA, which saved all the humans & other pets in the car from insanity,
& saved his life - he'd have been either murdered or sedated out-cold.
__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:33 PM
sid&kira's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ipswich
Posts: 3,748
Images: 25
sid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of light
Re: retraining a DA dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupcakes View Post

Does he like squeaky toys? I find the high pitched noise of them breaking the silence is enough to get Charlie out of that solid gaze. Then maybe you could give him treats once youve got his attention and he's being good? The only danger I warn you of that is though, other dogs charging over to try and get the toy too as has happened to me before.

xxx
he likes balls and he likes food, so we have 2 rewards to work with, only issue is he cant play with a ball with a muzzle on, and taking a treat is a little tricky!
__________________
Grey - Siberian Husky
Kira - Siberian Husky
Keyusha - Siberian Husky
Diesel - Staffy X
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:40 PM
sid&kira's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ipswich
Posts: 3,748
Images: 25
sid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of light
Re: B-mod for a Dog-Aggro or dog-reactive dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by leashedForLife View Post
did U introduce him to the box-muzzle [presuming it was a BASKET, not a 'tube' or fabric one?],
& habituate it as a happy-thing, before be wore it at the dog-park?

he took a couple of days to be happy with my dogs (but at the time was fine with outside dogs, otherwise i would never have taken him to the park) so was happy with a muzzle then and would sleep with it on, but once he became stressed at the park he started trying to fight the muzzle??

a muzzle, once happily habituated, does not raise the dog's stress; U can go back & re-introduce it,
change the anxious feelings for relaxed & even happy anticipation, & start over.

if U suspect he may snap at or frankly bite another dog, the muzzle is to protect U from liability,
& him from legal repercussions - like euthanasia. If U think he MAY attack another dog, i'd opt to
re-introduce the muzzle properly, & carefully habituate it as a PREDICTOR of good things to come.
both of U will be safer, as will Ur wallet.

the only issue is trying to give treats, his muzzle is a basket type but it is still hard to treat him, and as he works well for a ball this would mean i couldnt use that as a reward. I dont plan on letting him get close enough to react anymore, do we really need a muzzle?

LOOK AT THAT is a specific technique to teach a dog a default to look to the handler when cued
environmentally by the presence of their [soon-to-be former] trigger: they see, hear or smell a dog?
they LOOK to the handler for praise & rewards.

See UTube for many videos, search for 'control unleashed', 'Look at that', LAT, or CU.

Thanks I will have a look

Don't give up yet -

CALMATIVES can help enormously, see this post for What, When, How, etc -
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

the book 'Click to Calm' is an excellent DIY manual, applicable to any reactive issue.

Ah thats the name of it, i knew i'd heard something about that, he's not yet cued to a clicker but it's something i'll be doing

It's important to realize that most dog-aggro dogs are afraid of strange dogs -
they're not just mindlessly nasty, they're frightened & aren't doing this on purpose; they simply want
the other dogs to go away, & leave them alone. It's very stressful & upsetting to them.

many dog-reactive or dog-aggro dogs can improve enormously; keeping him UNDER threshold is key,
as is making progress only at the dog's own pace: Don't set deadlines or try to hustle him, take the time
to make sure he's comfortable at any one step before U raise the criterion, reduce the distance, ask him
to ignore barking dogs at a closer range, etc. Consistent & compassionate wins!
I think that may be where i went wrong today, he was calm and no reactive to the JRT outside the shop, but we moved closer to get out of someones way and thats when he started...
__________________
Grey - Siberian Husky
Kira - Siberian Husky
Keyusha - Siberian Husky
Diesel - Staffy X
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 06:22 AM
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,341
smokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of lightsmokeybear is a glorious beacon of light
Re: retraining a DA dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid&kira View Post
I need help

Diesel is no longer good with other dogs. He is fine with my pack though thankfully, so that is not an issue.

He was fine until I took him to the dog park, where he freaked out, he got stressed very quickly around all the dogs and I ended up getting someone to come and pick him up (i had kira at the park too). while at the park he was much better if we walked around (muzzled and on a lead), he still wouldnt greet nicely but he wasnt lunging for them. He shook and his eyes went red and he was panting even though it was cold

Since then he has gone for every dog we've met while out walking, he is kept on a flexi lead, though not muzzled as i think it causes him additional stress, which isnt going to help us. The size of dog doesnt matter, today he initially greeted a small poodle well, but then after a few seconds of sitting nicely he just lunged at it! He also tried to get to a jrt while standing outside a shop

I've been watching his body language, and he fixates on the dog, and as we get closer he crouches. I really struggle to break this fixation.

I dont know what do it, so far i'll admit i havent really done anything except keep him on a lead as I didnt want to admit it was a real issue

I just want to sort it out, but i dont know how to go about it, I dont want an agressive dog and if we knew he was like this (we were told he was very friendly to everyone and all dogs) we would not have taken him on

can anyone help me? i want to try and work on this myself before calling in a professional as i really cant afford to!

If you do not know what to do, would it not be a good idea to invest some money into an experienced, reputable trainer who could accurately diagnose the triggers for his behaviour?

This would ensure that your dog is tackled in the correct way rather than being "labelled" as something he may not be.

Often barrier frustration is wrongly labelled aggression, a good trainer would be able to see what is the underlying truth and should not be that expensive.

If you tell us where you live perhaps we can recommend someone?

I see you live in Ipswich, why not give Sally Askew a call? She may be able to be helpful to you.

http://www.caninebowentechnique.com/

I am not a fan of "click to calm" as we do not not know what we are clicking ie the emotional state of the dog.

Some books which may be of great help to you are BAT by Grisha Stewart and Feisty Fido by Patricia McConnell

Welcome to Positive Animal Solutions, Dog Training and Behaviour Books & DVDs & Great Dog Toys

Welcome to Positive Animal Solutions, Dog Training and Behaviour Books & DVDs & Great Dog Toys


Have you seen the Baskerville Ultra muzzles?

These are designed to protect other dogs and people but enable you to treat the dogs.

They are very soft and comfortable to wear

BASKERVILLE ULTRA MUZZLE | Company of Animals

You may find some OTC remedies may be of assistance or not, for some dogs they make no difference.

Or you may wish to consult your vet for advice on this score.

HTH

Last edited by smokeybear; 08-02-2012 at 06:24 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:03 PM
sid&kira's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ipswich
Posts: 3,748
Images: 25
sid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of lightsid&kira is a glorious beacon of light
Re: retraining a DA dog

smokeybear as said in the OP i cant afford outside help, if i could then i'd do it but my finances wont stretch any further!

Im in a better mood today and im sure its something we can work on, or at least it shouldnt be an issue. No I dont want a DA dog but he's here now, and we'll work on it
__________________
Grey - Siberian Husky
Kira - Siberian Husky
Keyusha - Siberian Husky
Diesel - Staffy X
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:48 PM
RAINYBOW's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: next door to Tom and Barbara
Posts: 9,884
RAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond reputeRAINYBOW has a reputation beyond repute
Re: retraining a DA dog

This might make a useful read Bit of an epic but it is a kind of blog of moving Oscar through this and there is some really helpful stuff in it.

It took about a year but he is so much better than he was

Hooligan Oscar ?? HELP
simplysardonic and sid&kira like this.
__________________


"I am not perfect and i don't have to be, before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean" - Bob Marley

https://sites.google.com/site/blisschalet/
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:40 PM
Burrowzig's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4,610
Burrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to allBurrowzig is a name known to all
Re: retraining a DA dog

You can give treats with a basket muzzle, they just need to be long thin ones! Think of things you can cut into strips and post through the holes, long enough he can reach them with his teeth.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sponsored Ads


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All posts made on this forum are NOT monitored.
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:23 AM.


PetForums is part of the Pet Media group of websites including | Pets4Homes | PetsLocally


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2