It is definately much shorter than you think it would be. Oscar was typical in that he would say hello fine then "BAM" kick off seemingly for no reason. The hardest part is walking away from the other dog quickly enough without seeming rude to the other owner

__________________


"I am not perfect and i don't have to be, before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean" - Bob Marley

https://sites.google.com/site/blisschalet/

Dex is a bit different in that he is not DA but hugely over excited by other dogs. Still the greeting has to be short and sweet before he gets chance to jump on their head!!!!

I must be the only person on the planet who does not mind off lead dogs approaching my on lead one.

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www.RescueRemedies.co.uk
http://www.dogsinneedofspace.co.uk/

I dont really mind as long as they are friendly, Oscar rarely reacts negatively in that situation as long as i relax his lead. Interestingly if the owner comes and grabs their dog while he is saying hello to it he will often kick off at that point

__________________


"I am not perfect and i don't have to be, before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean" - Bob Marley

https://sites.google.com/site/blisschalet/

we don't mark / click ' the emotional state of the dog' - just as in all other events,
we mark desired behavior - which in the case of a reactive dog,
is anything that isn't reactive: glance at the dog / look to the handler is often the preferred default,
where the dog has learnt 'Look At That' as a precursor to giving attention to the handler, & a reward.

Simply remarking, 'Ooh, look - a dog!', & following that with treats is a simple means
of classically-associating the presence of other dogs [visible, audible, or scent] with Good Things.
OPEN-BAR / CLOSED-BAR is the simplest version, where so long as a dog is perceptible, the treats continue;
when the dog is out of sight, sound, or smell, "the bar closes" / treats cease.

the major advantage to these & similar B-Mod programs is that the PRESENCE of a dog becomes
the environmental cue for the default behavior: Look from the trigger to the handler. That eliminates
the staring contests which escalate the reactive response, so that after a while, even those 'surprises'
[dogs coming around a corner, emerging between parked-cars, etc] are a cue to look at their handler,
& the instant explosion of a full-on aggro or reactive display is short-circuited.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Yep, I am "au fait" with the concept, it is similar to why the majority of us do not use the clicker in tracking training as it is impossible to KNOW what we are clicking!

Tracking or trailing are fairly unique, as only the dog can detect the scent / odor.

Since air-movement, temps, humidity, foliage, shade / sun, surfaces, etc, all affect scents, altering
the direct trail as well as air-scenting paths, changing intensity, etc, & we cannot SEE this -
only the dog can perceive it - we have to trust the dog more, since we can't 'correct' AKA punish,
nor clearly reward the process - if the dog is detecting a hidden odor-source, or finding a person,
we can obviously reward the results, but the process along the way?... Only if the handler knows
where the hidden odor-source is, can they reward the dog's progress as they approach the source.

OTOH, contraband detection can be marker / clicker trained easily; so can Nose-Games.


3 examples:
Using Platforms to Start Go Outs, Casting, and Directed Retrieve - YouTube

backchaining w/ Steve White -
Steve White training scent work using Clicker Training - YouTube


Duration nose hold - YouTube

My tekno is similar he would largely ignore dogs prior to being attacked then gradually after that he started to get more DA, and was much worse on the lead, but of course being on the lead kept him secure with me. Perhaps he really wasn't that confident before anyway.

The first thing the trainer we saw advised (she was an apdt trainer who also knew alot about behaviour too, was only something like £25 an hour, with travelling as she came from quite a way; a couple of apdt trainers have also been more than capable to advise on the issue I found) to start keeping a diary, aka your blog? It helped establish a pattern of behaviour over time, i.e. seems ovbious now but he was much better with dogs that were older, smaller, calmer. Big bouncy friendly playful dogs or dogs that approached rudelygot short shrift. He was really bad with puppies as they did not respect his space at all and I still actively avoid them.

It also wasn't until he was ill the first time and had to be walked alone that I realised that my other dog, who is a bolshy cow at times, would be the trigger for him; if she was bossy to another dog, or told another dog of it would set him off; on his own he was alot better without being wound up as her and thinking he was needed for some kind of backup.

I found that if possible keeping the lead slack helped, once we progressed, and only because I knew him really well, if a dog came over that looked OK, and there was no avoiding it I dropped the lead and walked off and he would often say hello very quickly and run back to me... obv you need to know your dog that is.

I found that he would also do that think, meet and greet, get stuckand then lunge and aggress to break the situation (he also went through a humpy stage too!)

I really avoided dogs as much as I could at first, very carefully picking what dogs he could meet, keeping a good distance, he was actually pretty good on a lead unless they eyeballed him or came towards him on the lead. We also taught a watch me command if a dog was coming, we would be at a safe distance he would sit and watch me and not even be interested in the passing dog.

We also did alot of walking behind people in the park we knew had dogs that would ignore him.... often if we had been walking behind a dog (no threat to him at all) he would be fine with it, it was the sudden strange dog coming p to say hello that scared him.

One of our best moments was meeting some friends, with 7 collies and another friend also with a DA staffie.. . we slowly parallel walked round with all the dogs in combinations no face to faces... after half an hour we let them all off the lead one by one, we knew both our dogs would not actively run up to others to attack.... they all ignored eachother for ages but by the end the two 'aggressive' staffies were playing together! so it can be done, trouble is its hard to find people willing to socialise with a staffie, others are brilliant if you explain.

The best thing I ever did in moving forward was use a clicker. My dog is so greedy its incredible. I associated the clicker with food. He would get stuck in greetings and then would aggress, as someone else said if someone came to get their dog, or if you touched him he would kick off, so couldn't grab his harness. All I did was let him say hello when he was at that stage to suitable dogs for a few seconds, carry on walking and click and he woudl be back at my side within seconds. Once he knocked a small dog over by running through it to get back to me and my treat - it really helped us move on and meant that he had so many more interactions that ended positively.

I still wouldn't trust him 100% but he is so much better, even has some really boisterous teenage friends that he goes to say hello to and knows in the park - would definately agree its strange unkown dogs and its fear generally ..

It can be done, time spent slowly now I am sure will pay off. It can be dispiriting at times but its very rewarding when little steps are passed.

Yes thank you, perhaps I should hae explained my dogs not only track (TDex FH1 FH2 and blood track) but they also carry out searches for which they are clicker trained.

But I am sure those who have no concept of tracking, searching or clicker training find your posts very useful

then i'm thoroughly flummoxed. Why, having obviously used a marker with skill & precision,
would U ever suggest that what one marks is an emotional state?!
U've used a marker, knowledgeably & accurately - i can't fathom why U'd say that. It's precisely why it seemed
that U weren't familiar with marker-training, & why i explained the basics; U're well beyond basics.

Why make such a misleading statement, which a novice would take at face-value?
I'm at a complete loss to comprehend the purpose.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

B-mod alters emotional states: Ex, swap fear of handling in an undersocialized pup
for happy anticipation of safe, painless contact & nice treats, using the power of classical conditioning
& consistent, predictable precursors. Change the emotional response from anxiety & fear to confident,
pleasurable expectation, & U change the dog's behavior: they are relaxed and co-operative, even eager.

We choose a behavior - anything perceptible, from miniscule to massive - to mark what we want. It can be
the dog's pupils shrink, head rises slightly, tail untucks, or a directed leap over a broad-jump on cue -
if we want more of that, we mark & reward it, using whatever motivates a particular learner. Body-language
is just another grammar that we can learn to parse, & that's what is key in working with reactive dogs:
being very fluent & highly-aware of the signals the dog displays, voluntary or involuntary, & both marking
and rewarding those subtle or gross signals that we prefer at any moment, shaping the dog's behavior
to an overall goal: on-cue readiness for an agility dog at the start-line, relaxation for a dog at the vet's,
less stress in a globally-phobic dog, more interactive behavior in a shut-down, withdrawn dog.

we can be very broad & open to what the dog offers [fearful or shut-down], or precise & goal-oriented
[a clicker-savvy dog polishing a well-known trained behavior]. It all depends on the dog, the final aim,
& the trainer's skills at reading behavior, reducing a goal behavior to a series of small steps, & their timing.

'Click to Calm' is the book i suggest for reactive issues of all kinds, because past clients
who could not afford 1-to-1 B-mod but whose dogs had severe & often long-standing problem behaviors,
used it - & succeeded, on their own, with minimal help from me; often just one or 2 60-min-sessions,
after which i saw rapid improvement over weeks, then smaller but continued gains over months.

IME it's the best DIY-manual that i know of, in terms of self-study & successful outcomes.

since many people either can't afford pro-help, or have no-one qualified or humane nearby to consult,
a reliable source for a pet-owner to help their own pet, thru their own efforts, is an excellent thing.
I love seeing a happy ending, with a dog whose future was uncertain now assured of a home,
& an owner or family who can now live with their formerly-difficult dog, and even have plans for more -
more training, more adventures with their dog, a wider world to share. It's wonderful.

and BTW - disclaimer:
i didn't write the book; i don't get a dime nor any consideration in kind, nor any tangible or intangible
rewards from the author, publisher, distributors, or any other entity involved in any way whatever:
i've used it & still do; past clients, casual acquaintances, neighbors & total strangers
have used it with good results. That's why i recommend it: novices can succeed.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007