Forgot to mention that short term you could also use a pet correcter or an air horn to shock her off anything when you see she might be going for something.

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Not got lot of spare time so forgive hurried typing. In my experince many dogs that pick things up a lot and chew or swallow innaproriate things have sometimes been inadvertently been "trained" to do so, becasue their owners have been over vigilant and tried to remove things fromthem when they are puppies. Understnadable behaviour form oving owners, but this can cause problems. Dogs which realise their owners are interested in and will pay them attention when they have things in their mouth, have a tendency to activelt search for and find things to put in their mouth. If the owner routeinly takles the thing off the dog then the dog learns to either swallow it quickly, chew it then swallow, or guard it, depending on the dogs genetics.

Im not suggesting you have done this but it is a possibility with some dogs with this behaviour. If this is the case then you dont want to be teaching a leave in a a positive kind of way at al, as in swapping for food....l. otherwise the dog will learn to pick things up in order to force you to swap them for some chicken. How are you teaching leave or drop? With soem dogs teching this is easy with others its impossible....... Whatever you try.

Normally, I would never use a spray collar, but if you genuienly believe that your dogs life is in danger becasue of this habit and you are unable to effectively teach a drop or leave it quickly..... then under those and ONLY THOSE circumstances I would consider a spray collar. Spray collars are very effective (in long coated breeds not so) For this particular problem, but again I would only iuse when all else has failed. The other thing and again this is the ONLY time I would recommend such use (I am a food reward and clicker based trainer and instructor, so collars and tins and noises casue me conflict at times and can make me uncomfortable, but I know they work) is a tin can with pebbles or nails in it. If your dog thinks that each time it picks something up after it has heard your leave command.... a tin can that makes a noise falls out of the sky near its head... it will soon stop picking things up (assuming it is upset by the tin can). You musnt throw the tinm AT the dog, just NEAR the dog and make sure your aim is good...... we dont want to be hitting the dog with a tin can! Also, try to make sure that the dog doesnt see you throw it!

I wou;dnt chose to mussle a dog either as other posters have said. Muzzles change the behaiour of people and dogs that will encounter your dog and false learning is the result.

I hope ther is something in here that may help you. Good luck with your dog and congratulations on providing your dog with what sounds like a jolly interesting life! Denise

I would deffinately work on your leave it and Drop Commands, Practice it every day as part of your daily training session. If you teach leave it and Drop, it at least gives you two chances, if you dont get them on the leave you always have the drop.

I have always taught both with treats and made it part of the daily training.
To teach the leave, I first taught a reliable sit and wait, sit and wait is important because it is a foundation for impulse control exercises. If you have already taught this great. If not you just extend the sit to a sit wait, by where as before you originally treated as soon a bottom hit the ground, you now add the command wait, and then give the treat. Slowly you build up the time between the command wait and actually giving the treat, until the dog can show impulse control.

Once you have taught this, I then once had them in a sit wait, would put the treat on the floor in front of them and cover it with my hand and say leave, repeat leave, and then tell them to wait, uncover it repeat wait and then point to the treat with take it. You should even find eventually you can get them to sit wait, put the treat down, cover it say leave, then wait, uncover it, wait again then step back and get them to take it. Build up the exercise and practice it every day, It should then become second nature, when you say the command leave.

To teach Drop, personally I have always done it through play and the swop system at first. Throw or let them have the ball or toy, then show a high value treat, as they go to physically drop the ball or toy, say the command Drop, give the treat and you pick up the ball/toy. Then throw the toy again,
and keep repeating. Again eventually it should become a conditioned response to the word drop, as the re-throw continuation of game is a reward in itself you should find that the dog will want to drop the ball or toy anyway.

To acheive the best results, start with high value smelly treats, cheese, chicken,hot dogs, sausages etc, and a lower value toy or ball. When the dog has the concept and starts to understand DROP then you can use it to get him to drop things he finds of higher value.

With the LEAVE you start the Opposite way round, you start to use lesser favourite treats at first so he is not so tempted whilst he gets the concept and learns leave and learns self control. Then you can up the anti with higher value tasty treats as he improves.

I would certainly not use, pet correctors Rattle Bottles or any other loud noisy techniqes. Collies can be ultra sensitive, and skittish and OCD, they can be reactive to traffic noise and sudden frights at the best of times and can become easily phobic. At her age too dogs can enter a fear of the unknown period where they can react again to sights sounds and situations with uncertainty and fear. With how the breed can be in general and the age she is now personally I would not like to chance it, it can back fire badly, and its possible you can end up with a noise phobic dog.

I would continue to train on a daily basis Impulse control, and the Leave it and Drop.

AS much as I really dont like Muzzles if you really think she is at serious risk whilst you are training, personally I would think if its a toss up between a very good chance of a Blockage and surgery or worse, and a Muzzle I know what I would choose. Muzzles though you do have to habituate and train too, you cant just put them on. The best Muzzle would likely be a Basket or Baskerville Muzzle. You need to introduce it by putting high value treats in it and encouraging a game of getting her to put her nose in it, when she is comfortable with that, then you can do it up, taking it off pretty quicky and praising and rewarding for calm behaviour, then you can leave it on for a minute or so before taking it off praise and reward, Do it slowly and acclimatise her and be led by her how she is coping and dont move forward with the intro too quickly. I would only use it on walks though, and not leave in the house, and deffinately not alone with it on. As said also only if in dire need too and you believe she is seriously at risk.

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Actually- going to stick my neck out here and say that I DON'T think there would be anything wrong with muzzling her. Weighing up the risks and benefits- provided you habituate her to wearing the muzzle (so that she is comfortable wearing it and it doesn't bother her)- then using it as a management tool for as long as needed certainly wouldn't do any harm. More importantly it would avoid her ingesting something that would really harm her: on balance I'd rather pop a muzzle on her if she were mine than have her seriously ill (which is the point you were making I believe OP )

Probably worth having thoroughly checked by a vet just in case- there is any medical component which may or may not be related to this quite extreme scavenging?
There may be nothing but it's certainly worth checking.

Muzzles wise- avoid fabric ones- not suitable for exercising.

The new Baskerville Ultra ones are great, can be used for exercise and you can still fit small treats through it so ideal for rewarding her making good choices

Similarly if she has more of a collie shaped face, might be worth looking at Lurcher/whippit muzzles as they can often fit collie types well.

EXAMPLE HERE

Do be sure that you habituate her to it so that she is comfortable wearing it

MUZZLE TRAINING VIDEO/DEMO

Another thought...

As well as muzzling- managing the behaviour and avoiding rehearsal/keeping her safe...

seeing as she REALLY really REALLY wants to scavenge... how's about giving her an outlet to do so. So that you can "switch her on and off". It turns into her job...

Something like tracking, on a long line, on verbal cue to "search"- practice as specific places, use special working harness etc...

TRACKING

or scent discrimination perhaps.

Giving them a suitable controlled outlet for instinctive behaviour is far better than surpressing it totally and should make for a happier dog

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I agree with Lemmsy.

One of my sister's collies now has to wear a muzzle on her morning walks through the woods. She had three vet trips in December for horrendous sickness and diarrheoa and it became obvious that she had found something nasty (probably a rotting deer carcass) hidden in the undergrowth.

It was either a muzzle or being kept on the lead.

Dogs can be their own worse enemies when it comes to scavenging.

You are going to have to be one step ahead of her when out and keep her on a lead for a while until she grows up a little I think. My little cross T-Bo is now one year old and has completely stopped eating foreign objects but he was a real bugger between 4 - 10 months of age then he just suddenly stopped doing it. I used to find bits of sticks, stones and plastic in his poo and occasionally he would vomit up bits of stones too. He would find things in the garden and eat just about anything including empty snail shells! Although we tried to make sure nothing was on the floor there are five people in this house and all have things scattered in their bedrooms now and then also he loved finding my three daughters make up - a right pain isn't it?

I would lead walk her for the next couple of months and possibly muzzle her when she goes in the garden with a soft muzzle like the one Marty is modelling below. It helped with Teebs and he didn't wear it for long, just garden trips, stopped eating things in the garden and this kind of muzzle didn't hurt his face. It can't be left on for walks though as it doesn't allow for panting. Sorry couldn't find Teebs one.

Marty is a bit peeved as I had to wake him up to put this on, lol!

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Flynn - Kali - Britches - Bruce - T-Bo - Marty



"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

There are plenty of dogs who wear muzzles all the time and have no problems with other dogs etc.

Remember it is not your DOG's job to "defend itself" it is YOURS, so that argument holds no sway with me.

There are several dogs around me who wear muzzles all the time as they are scavengers who have nearly died due to their habits.

There is some advice about fitting one to a dog.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files/...headcollar.pdf

There are LOTS of muzzles out there which fit toy dogs and puppies, you may need to shop around, those designed for whippets may be ideal.

Here is a link to teaching an effective leave it without the need for spray collars or rattle cans.

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Teaching "Leave It"

"eating stuff", IOW chewing & SWALLOWING the bits, is not the same as 'chew & destroy stuff'.

dogs who compulsively chew & swallow inedible things, or simply swallow inedible things, do so even when
they're supervised: they can be incredibly fast, they'll grab & gulp to prevent anyone taking their item -
the compulsive swallowing of inedible things is called pica, & it's very dangerous.

PICA usually is the result of severe anxiety, which may be innate [globally-fearful dog] or post-trauma;
IOW, some dogs are born that way, afraid & constantly anxious, others become so after bad experiences.
i would begin teaching DROP IT, a-s-a-p, but i'd teach it as a happy game; the last thing this dog needs
is more anxiety, & any scolding, looming, aversives, etc, will definitely increase anxiety & tension.
i would not suggest letting a muzzled-dog OFF the lead: what if she encounters another dog?
she's defenseless - her teeth are her only weapon, & wandering about loose is simply not safe for her.

the rule is that if ONE dog is muzzled, ALL dogs are muzzled - & obviously, U cannot demand that all the dogs
in the neighborhood be muzzled, to protect Ur dog from them! That's not reasonable. Ergo, keeping her leashed
or on a long-line is the safe option: no dog can assault her without U seeing it begin, & getting her to U quickly -
hopefully before any actual bites occur.

are these BOX muzzles, AKA basket muzzles?
Or groomer's, tube, or mesh muzzles - of fabric or stiffish netting?

only basket [box] muzzles are safe for dogs to wear for more than a few minutes, even in cool temps:
tube muzzles don't let the dog open their mouth fully to pant, & a stressed dog must pant; they cannot regulate
their body-temp without panting easily, with a patent airway, & can die of heat-stress, heat-stroke, or become
first overheated, then nauseous, & vomit - which can be immediately-fatal [they choke & die], or slowly fatal
[inhalation pneumonia], or have long-term disastrous effects: brain damage, paralysis, etc.
what's the 'safety loop'?

is it an over-the-head strap that goes from the upper-rim of the muzzle, between the eyes, & slips onto
the dog's collar, so that the dog can't thumb the muzzle off?

can U post 2 photos of her, wearing each of her muzzles, so that we can see what they look like?
yes -
a 6-ft leash [with or without a muzzle, SO LONG AS U are watching her alertly] or a long-line with a basket
muzzle, staying alert for other dogs & being sure that she's close to U when unknown dogs are nearby or approach.

at home, use EXCLUDERS to keep her away from things she can chew:
baby-gates to keep her in the same room, a crate whenever U can't monitor her - which means
she's NEVER out of the room, nor out of sight - if U watch telly, she's right there in front of U.
if U read, U check on her frequently & she's attached to U via an umbilical, so it's impossible
for her to slip behind the sofa or out the doorway, & find something to gnaw on & swallow,
unobserved.

If U can't watch her, she's crated, OR she's restricted to a carefully-policed area that U know -
not 'think', but know to be dog-safe: nothing she can get ahold of, all doors are secured
with child-proof latches, ditto all drawers; the floor is not rippable lino but ceramic tile, slate,
concrete, quarry tile, or some other impossible-to-chew surface, there is nothing small-enuf to get
her mouth onto that can be chewed: no wood, no plastic, no WIRES [AC or DC or metal], zip! Nada.

at the same time, she NEEDS safe items to chew:
legal stuff - Nylabones, solid rubber chews, a Kong filled with moistened & frozen food in it [half a meal is about right],
food-puzzles to keep her busy, a Buster-cube to knock around & scatter dry kibble a few at a time,
cow-hooves IF SHE DOESN'T take sharp chips off & swallow them, but 'grinds' away at it & drops the bits...
sterilized THICK-WALLED bones, not thin-walled ones that chip or crack!, hefty fresh bone-joints
[a steer's hock is good - freeze it, then thaw it in the frig before giving it to her, to reduce
the bacteria-load & kill any parasites present] --

anything that's tooth-safe, durable, & non-toxic - no small parts, no stuffing, no plastic, no foam-filling.


Calmatives are also something i'd strongly suggest:
this post lists a number of safe non-scrip calmatives, they're effective, no dosage worries nor side-effects,
& can really improve her quality of life.

Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

they also don't interact with any medications - another happy safety-factor.
i'd suggest 3 at minimum: 1 oral, 1 tactile, & 1 olfactory - whichever is most-effective will support
the other 2, & improve the dog's overall response. Each one works on a different sensory mode,
& all 3 together 'magnify' each other, helping the dog relax. They aren't habit-forming & are not
drugs - the animal is not 'sedated' in any way, they're alert & aware, but more relaxed & calm.

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terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Hi.

Thanks for all the advice and replies. Was away with the OH and pup for a few days to the seaside. She had a ball and loved chasing the waves at break neck speed (her, not the waves). Discovered that as well as drop it, we need to work on recall!

I was interested in some of the replies and think I may have overstated my case or not explained properly? Reba is extremely good in the house and in fact any familiar environments. She doesn't eat anything at home that she is used to seeing, including tv wires, furniture, really anything at all. Also outside, she doesn't eat in the yard, again unless something new is introduced - like the wall plugs. when we were away over the last few days in a new house, again she didn't really try to eat anything and the leave it command works pretty well. Out in the garden there was lots of bits of wood, and it was much much harder to get her to leave, so we tended to keep her on a lead unless we were playing fetch with her.

Denise, when she was younger we were extremely vigilant and in fact still are. She used to run away when we came into a room if she had a chew and we have worked hard on relaxing around her and letting her have her chew in peace. Now she will lie beside us and eat it without guarding. So, I think you may well have a point in what you say. But we do also need to get her to leave and drop objects and have started the latter in earnest tonight, during play. Thankfully she is such a quick learner, she will pick it up quickly, but then I know we need to transfer it to other environments.

Leashed for life, I know she is a highly sensitive pup, and she does hate loud noises and sudden movement so I would never use anything that could make that worse, and we spend a lot of time being calm and gentle around her. I think that is paying dividends. She is also a very sociable dog, who loves people and other dogs. We have had her since she was 8 weeks and she hasn't suffered any trauma with us that I am aware of. I hope that her difficulty is not as severe as PICA. We are mostly here with her and if not she is in a very puppy proof kitchen, with her open crate in it.

The muzzle option is on the back burner but in the meantime we will work hard on training outside the house. She does sit and stay in the park, and recall most of the time, but will step it up.

Oh and I like the tracking idea, we figured out by accident that she likes "find" so we do that quite a bit with her toys.
Gavs.