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Old 19-01-2012, 09:02 PM
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Question EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

I desperately need help. I suppose I must have messed up somewhere in the beginning, but I have been trying from the start to work with my dog's separation anxiety, and after four years, am still getting nowhere.

Background: I adopted my 11 lb terrier mutt when he was 5 month old from a shelter. He has ALWAYS been a timid dog, from day one. As a puppy, he had his fair share of accidents in the house, and I read that punishment for mistakes was not going to be effective like encouragement for good behavior would. I did my best not to scold him too harshly for accidental elimination, but lavishly praised every outside elimination, and he ate up the attention. He quickly learned not to eliminate in the house when someone was home, and as an adult dog, can hold his bladder the entire work day as long as there is a person in the apartment. However, I have NEVER been able to trust him home alone. Whether he is left alone for several hours, or only 10 minutes, he will undoubtedly eliminate next to a door, even though he KNOWS this is bad, and will act guilty when I return home. Luckily for our first several years together, I lived in a house with a yard, so he was left outside with other dogs when people were not home.

He has been very attached to me from the day I adopted him. At the time, I lived with 2 roommates, so there was almost always someone home, but he would go through drastic measures to ensure that he was in the same room as me, with no barriers between us. He is fine sitting across the room from me, he does not have to have my attention, but a door or doggie gate between us has always been a point of anxiety for him, and he will go through extreme escape artist feats trying to get to me.

I got married about a year ago, the dog was about 3.5 yrs old. My husband and I moved into an apartment together, and we both work full time. We tried leaving him in the tiled kitchen with a kiddie gate, which he subsequently learned to vault. Next we tried leashing him in the kitchen, which resulted in (for the first time in his life) destructive behavior, including dumping of food/water dishing, pulling towels off the oven door, opening cabinets, chewing on the metal oven drawer and cutting his gums, smearing blood all over the place, eliminating and then smooshing it everywhere trying to hide it. We were absolutely shocked at the scene we came home to.

We began trying to crate train him, as slowly as we could, but we were both working full time and really did not have much leeway in how fast the training had to go. At first it seemed to be going well. But eventually we realized that within seconds of our departures, he has a separation anxiety attack. Daily. He is extremely vocal, pants, salivates, and frantically gnaws at the crate latch. He (my tiny 11 lb dog) has chewed through an entire carabeener steel lock we used on his crate after he figured out how to open it's normal latch.

When I arrive home at the end of the work day, I hear him stretch as I walk in the door, and can tell he was in a state of calm behavior, but within seconds of my arrival (whether he can see me or not), he returns to a full blown panic attack in his crate. I do not want to immediately let him out of his crate and encourage his attention-seeking behavior, so I have tried everything I know to get him to calm down before I let him out. I have tried scolding, I have tried telling him "No" and "Sit", both words he knows very well when he is calm. I have tried ignoring him (as most articles on separation anxiety instruct you to do), but to no avail. If I stay in the room and ignore him, or go into another room and ignore him, his panic attack does not stop at '10-15 min' as explained in advice columns, but will continue for over an hour. Yes, I have timed them more than once. He simply does not stop.

My husband is more than fed up, and wants me to get rid of the dog. No matter what I say, I cannot convince him to eradicate his habit of taking out his frustrations at the dog with punishment and angry words (both of which cause the dog to soil the carpet, thus making my husband even more angry). But I cannot bring myself to give the dog away, because every time we have had someone pet-sit for us, the dog goes into depression and will not eat until I return. I can only imagine how he would handle being given away. Every article I read talks of training the anxiety out of the dog by rewarding only the calm behavior. But if he simply will not calm down, where do I go from here?? Help!!
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Old 20-01-2012, 04:25 AM
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Firstly. It is really difficult to provide an environment where a dog can be successful in all the tasks and roles that he has to fulfil unless everyone that the dog interacts with on a daily basis is onside and on-message to provide that support. So unless your husband can be persuaded to help and not hinder I think you will continue in a spiral where you try to do good that is undone by your partner's actions. If this leads to the removal of the dog how will that impact the relationship with your husband in the future, something for you both to consider.

From your description the dog is not suffering Separation Anxiety but is bored out of it's mind with nothing to do while left alone. Assuming the dog sleeps at night when you are asleep it is unreasonable to expect the dog to sleep during the day as well. There are "Doggie Day Care" companies that would resolve this problem.

Your mentioning of "punishment" and "not scold him too harshly" suggests that the first training that is required for both you and your husband.

Without a united and positive approach to dog care you will not improve the situation - the reality of re-homing is that a small mutt might find a new home, but have the baggage that has developed over the past year.

Before embarking on a new approach to dog training I suggest you need to discuss the decline in the dog's behaviour since moving in together, that seems to be the cause from the information you have given.
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Old 20-01-2012, 06:20 PM
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Thumbs down SELF-DIAGNOSED "Extreme Sep-Anx"

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...I must have messed up somewhere in the beginning, but I've [tried] from the start to work with my dog's
separation anxiety, & after four years, am still getting nowhere.
1 - who decided this is Sep-Anx?

it's the most common overly-diagnosed issue in dogs; the primary symptom is escape -
not barking, not destroying, not whining, etc.

2 - have U read - not 'skimmed' - the Sticky on Sep-Anx?
if not, do so... the whole bloody thing, each post, particularly Links - read the articles,
watch the videos, etc.

there's no point in anyone repeating what's already been explained at length & in detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

I adopted my 11# terrier-mutt [at] 5-MO from a shelter. He's ALWAYS been timid, from day one.

As a puppy, he had his fair share of accidents in the house...
he was FIVE-months old! How the devil does that have 'a fair share' of accidents?
they were your fault - each & every one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...& I read that punishment for mistakes [wouldn't] be [as] effective [as] encouragement for good behavior...
I did my best not to scold him too harshly for accidental elimination...
sorry; Every potty-error is the fault of the supervising HUMAN, not the dog;
either U didn't schedule properly,
didn't WATCH the dog adequately,
or didn't get the dog out the door promptly, when required. No excuses.

besides, he was FIVE MONTHS OLD - not 56-days! At that age, barring medical issues, there's zero reason
for the dog to have ONE error, since they've got sphincter-muscles on both bladder & bowel, & can easily
retain their contents for at least 6-hours [age in mos + 1] BETWEEN potty-trips, barring any triggers.

one potty-error might have been understandable - U got careless.
2 would be pushing it; anything above that, & U were simply sloppy about monitoring or scheduling,
or both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...but lavishly praised every outside elimination, & he ate up the attention. He quickly learned not to eliminate in the house
when someone was home, & as an adult, can hold his bladder the entire work-day as long as there's
a person in the apartment
.

...I've NEVER been able to trust him home alone. Whether... alone for several hours, or only 10 minutes,
he'll undoubtedly eliminate next to a door, even though he KNOWS this is bad, & [acts] guilty when I return...
Dogs don't comprehend "guilt".

the body-language U label 'guilt' is APPEASEMENT: he expects anger, scolding, maybe punishment
of some kind, but is well-aware that U are p*ssed-off & he's the one U're angry with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...for [the] first several years... [We] lived in a house with a yard; he was left outside with other dogs
when people were not home.
leaving a bunch of dogs outside together, with no-one home, isn't a responsible thing to do.
dogs left in a yard are confined, bored, at the mercy of the elements, & at risk from malicious persons.
they develop multiple problem-behaviors, such as fence-running, fence-fighting, nuisance barking,
digging, chewing destructively, etc, merely to fill the empty hours; NOISES trigger barking; Barking dogs
get the nasty attentions of neighbors, total strangers, & evil folks with time on their hands. They are stoned,
teased, may be poisoned, fed spoiled food, yelled at, & so on; it's not a 'relationship-building' option.

it's a relationship-DESTROYING choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

He's been very attached to me from the day I adopted him. At the time, I lived with 2 roommates;
there was almost always someone home, but he'd go through drastic measures to ensure that he was
in the same room... with no barriers between us. He's fine sitting across the room from me, he does not
have to have my attention, but a door or baby-gate between us has always been a point of anxiety for him,
& he'll go through extreme escape-artist feats, trying to get to me.
so...
why didn't U deal with this when he was 5-MO, 3-years ago? Waiting didn't improve it.
now it's a powerful habit, strongly-reinforced & heavily rehearsed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

I got married about a year ago, [he] was about 3.5-YO. My husband & I moved into an apartment together,
& both work full time. We tried leaving him in the tiled kitchen with a kiddie gate, which he... learned to vault.

Next we tried leashing him in the kitchen, which resulted in (for the first time...) destructive behavior:
dump food/water bowls, pull towels off the oven-door, open cabinets, chew on the metal oven-drawer
[which cut his gums], [b]smearing blood all over the place, STOOLing & then smooshing it everywhere [to try] to hide it.
spilling his food & water aren't DESTRUCTIVE.
he was the only 'loser', there; he knocked them over while trying
to get out of the room, not JUST TO P*SS YOU OFF.

similarly, BLEEDING isn't 'vindictive'; it's a consequence of CUTTING
ONE'S GUMS, which are a mucus-membrane tissue, heavily supplied
with blood-vessels, & which bleed - a lot! - when cut.

they also HURT a LOT when injured. Did he see a vet for this?
if not, Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post
We were absolutely shocked at the scene we came home to.
poor U - what about the dog?! did he go to the vet?
did the vet TELL U to see a vet-behaviorist? if not, Y not?

did U see a vet-behaviorist? did s/he prescribe medication? An anti-anxiety drug?
did they provide a B-Mod protocol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

We began trying to crate train him, as slowly as we could...
Just what does THAT mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...[with us] both working full-time, [we]... didn't have much leeway in how fast the training had to go.
the empathy for Ur dog just drips off the prose, there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

At first it seemed to [go] well. But eventually we realized that within seconds of our departures,
he has a separation anxiety attack. Daily.
have U video-recorded these events? If not, Y not?

have U sought a professional referral from Ur vet? If not, Y not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

He's extremely vocal, pants, salivates, & frantically gnaws... the crate latch.
U know this how?
from video U've recorded? from the neighbors' reports?

U can't be IN THE ROOM, as this happens when he's home alone - Right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...my tiny 11# dog has chewed through an entire carabeener steel lock we used on his crate
after he figured out how to open [the original] latch.
i don't believe that statement is a fact.

dogs aren't 20-foot great white sharks; he's an under-20# toy dog.
HIS TEETH WOULD SHATTER before the steel broke!
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

When I arrive home at the end of the work day, I hear him stretch as I walk in the door, & I can tell he was
in a state of calm behavior
...
X-ray vision, Lois Lane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...but within seconds of my arrival (whether he [sees] me or not), he returns to a full-blown panic attack
in his crate.

I do not want to immediately let him out of his crate and [b]encourage his attention-seeking behavior...
a panic attack isn't 'attention-seeking'...
IT"S A PANIC-ATTACK!
that means it's INvoluntary, EXTREMELY upsetting,
HIGHLY-stressful, & deeply UNpleasant.
it's NOT DONE BY CHOICE - it's a PANIC ATTACK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...I've tried everything I know to get him to calm down before I let him out.
U haven't asked the vet for a referral.
U haven't made an appointment with a board-certified veterinary behaviorist.

how many teeth has he lost or broken, so far?
how much damage to his gums & lips?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

I've tried scolding...
oh, guaranteed to sooth an emotionally-overwrought, desperate individual in the midst of a PANIC ATTACK.

can't imagine why i didn't think to suggest it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...I've tried telling him 'No' & 'Sit', both [cues] he knows very well when he is calm.
did it occur to U that in a state of PANIC, he might not be able to execute those cues?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...I've tried ignoring him (as most articles on separation anxiety instruct you to do)...
again, i can't imagine why this wasn't an instant success.

could it be because he was having a panic attack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfHelp View Post

...but to no avail.
If I stay in the room & ignore him, or go [to] another room & ignore him, his panic attack does not stop
at '10 to 15 minutes', as explained in advice columns, but [continues] for over an hour.
U LET UR DOG SUFFER FOR AN HOUR, doing nothing?

i'm out of here; if U lived near me, i'd report U for at the very least, neglect,
as this deserved VETERINARY attention from a board-certified behaviorist years ago,
& quite possibly this specific detail qualifies as 'animal cruelty' in many places.

good luck to the dog.
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Last edited by leashedForLife; 23-01-2012 at 05:24 PM.. Reason: missed a bracket, drabbit :o
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Old 20-01-2012, 06:26 PM
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Arrow 1 link; 1 strongly advised step

here's the sticky
How to help a dog with Separation Anxiety. - Pet Forums Community

strongly advise:
find a veterinary-behaviorist, ASAP - or give-up the dog to a rescue, shelter, or a qualified specialist -
not some self-anointed 'behaviorist', not a franchise trainer, NOT a pack-theory Neanderthal! -
who can help the dog, and who WON'T LEAVE HIM ALONE during the weeks & possibly months
of his B-Mod.

either he leaves the house to go elsewhere when the humans leave, or someone else is paid
to come INTO the house when the resident[s] leave. There are no other options, till he's recovered.
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Old 20-01-2012, 07:40 PM
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Re: EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

To be honest I pretty much agree with everything that Terry (Leashedforlife) has said - although it certainly wasn't tactful! (No offense of course Terry).

Assuming your priority is doing right by the dog you have two options:

1) Get professional (qualified, vet referred behaviourist) help and follow it to the letter, no matter how much time, money and effort that involves. This means not just you but your husband doing it right - he MUST be on board with any behaviour modification or it will not work. Give this dog everything he needs to overcome his problems, until he no longer gets distressed.

2) Rehome him.

Now for the detailed bit.....

Quote:
But I cannot bring myself to give the dog away..... .....I can only imagine how he would handle being given away
To be blunt, I very much doubt it would cause more suffering than he is currently enduring. This is not a happy dog. He is showing all the signs of intense stress / distress / fear etc. including full blown panic attacks. He can't cope with being alone, and now is being attacked (he can not associate "punishment" with something he isn't doing at the time).

I honestly believe that if you can't end his suffering, then rehoming him would be by far the lesser of two evils.

Quote:
I did my best not to scold him too harshly for accidental elimination..... taking out his frustrations at the dog with punishment and angry words... I have tried scolding
Firstly, please understand this dog is NOT being "naughty". He is highly distressed and probably has very little control over his behaviour; especially the elimination issues.

Punishing him (which includes any "scolding") is not simply useless; it has and will make him worse!!

Look at it this way... for some reason the dog originally found being home alone bad and scary. Then suddenly you started to scold him when you got home. Now it has escalated to the point where your husband appears to be losing control and terrifying the poor dog. Now the dog has even more reason to hate being left - not only it is terrifying being alone, it is terrifying when you return because terrible things happen.

I am frankly sickened and appalled by your husbands behaviour - if he "punished" a child so severely he caused him to wet or crap himself with fear how would you feel?

Quote:
he KNOWS this is bad, and will act guilty
No he does not. He doesn't speak english - he CAN NOT possibly understand what you are raving about. Unless the punishment occurs whilst the behaviour is occurring he can not associate the two. By definition "after-the-fact" punishment is not punishment at all (as it doesn't stop the behaviour) - it is simply abuse.

And dogs don't do guilt. For one thing, there is no evidence dogs are capable of experiencing guilt, in fact the evidence suggests it is unlikely. And what has he got to feel guilty about? It isn't like he understand the costs of carpets / lino, or that people find the smell of dog pooh offensive. What he is doing isn't "wrong" as far as he is concerned. His "guilt" is nothing more than appeasement and / or fear - either because he sees you are angry and knows that bad things are about to happen, or he associates your coming home with bad things always happening, whether you initially seem angry or not.

Stop the punishment NOW. All of it. No cross words, nothing.

In terms of treating the problem this is going to take a huge amount of time and effort - mainly because whilst it is happening this dog can not be left alone - period. Any time he is left before he is ready will only set him back further.
You can both take time off work, get friends or relatives to stay with him, have a dog sitter / walker take him out or whatever but do not leave him alone.

You can then start from scratch, initially with simply getting him used to not being in the same room etc before moving on to pretending to leave, leaving him for a matter of seconds, etc. and building it up gradually making it as positive and calm as possible.

There may be other things worth trying; like DAP diffusers or Rescue Remedy or even medication to help keep him calm but these should be used in conjunction with a proper behaviour modification plan in place - on their own they are unlikely to have much effect.

It would also be worth looking at his housetraining again during this time - just going back to rewarding him for eliminating outside just to reinforce this (although I do not behave his accidents in the house are under his control right now). And building a "chew toy obsession" to encourage permitted chewing behaviour rather than destruction. I would also suggest both of you embarking on a fun programme of positive reinforcement, fun training to try to rebuild the bond between you. Your husband has done an excellent job of shattering the dogs trust and confidence so far.

In the longer term, if boredom is an issue or if he chews in order to feel better, then providing suitable chew toys or interactive toys like kongs and activity balls when he is alone may be beneficial.

That's the briefest overview. Aside from giving you a very general idea of the work involved it won't help you much. You really need to seek professional help on this one. I would strongly suggest you ask your vet to refer you to a qualified behaviourist (if you are in the UK I would recommend APBC or COAPE registered).

Frankly though if ANYONE, husband or not, terrified my dog to point it eliminated in fear they would never enter my home again and I would sure as hell do the same to him.
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Old 20-01-2012, 07:45 PM
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Thumbs up Re: SELF-DIAGNOSED "Extreme Sep-Anx"

Quote:
Originally Posted by leashedForLife View Post
1 - who decided this is Sep-Anx?...
Deep breaths.

You feel the tension leaving your body in waves.

You feel relaxed and refreshed.

When I click my fingers you can open your eyes and you will be fully awake.

3... 2... 1....
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Old 20-01-2012, 08:02 PM
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Re: EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

Manoy - I just wanted to explain the reasons I didn't agree with your diagnosis...

Quote:
From your description the dog is not suffering Separation Anxiety but is bored out of it's mind with nothing to do while left alone.
One of the main differences between boredom and anxiety type issues tend to be time.... were this happening only when the dog was left a working day I might agree with you, but it isn't.

The OP has clearly stated that the problems occur even if the dog is only left for 10 minutes; indeed that his extreme reactions start "within seconds" of their departure. This doesn't leave the dog much time in which to get bored.

The problems themselves don't sound to me like the dog having "fun" in the slightest. Eliminating is not a boredom issue, and combined with escape attempts etc as well...

Plus we have the obvious issue that the dog can't even be in a different room when the owners are in without totally losing control.

Of course, this dog may well not be getting enough exercise or mental stimulation - there is no mention of any training / play / walks so we don't know - but I honestly can't see that being the problem here. Increasing his exercise and providing suitable toys might benefit him, but I very much doubt they are going to stop the behaviours he is displaying.
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Old 20-01-2012, 09:10 PM
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Re: EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

I am thoroughly disgusted by this post. Your dog is not looking guilty, FFS, he is scared stiff when he sees you or your old man. He is shut in a crate all day, a high energy breed like a terrier, and expected to just behave.

Put yourself in his place. He is imprisoned, alone which he is already scared of, and terrorised when someone does appear.

The best thing you can do for this dog is rehome him, or better still, rehome the husband. Are you going to allow him to treat your children this way?
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Old 20-01-2012, 10:00 PM
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Re: EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

Lots of harsh and blunt words but I have to agree. This poor dog needs a different home with someone who is prepared to understand and meet his needs.
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Old 21-01-2012, 01:16 AM
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Re: EXTREME Separation Anxiety. HELP!!

Poor, poor little dog. I agree with other posters, please reconsider your stance on re-homing him, this is no life for him.
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