Hi everyone

For a while now, I've been having a few little issues with my 18 month old collie (possible collie cross) bitch.

If we are sitting in the living room and one of us gets up to go to the toilet/kitchen/the other side of the room she runs straight to the back door and barks to go out. If we sit back down again and ignore her, she'll generally settle back down again.

When it is time to let her out (we normally do so about 8-8.30pm and then again at bedtime) she jumps and barks at the door. We are currently trying to work through this (with the advice of a trainer) by putting her on her lead and taking her out because if we don't, she'll charge out of the back door and run up and down the garden barking.

We are trying to make her sit and wait before leading her out but she seems that wired and keen to get out there, sometimes she is physically trembling.

Recently things have been getting worse rather than better... once on the lead, she will still try and charge at the door, so we shut the door and start again... but then she's that wound up she'll refuse to even sit, let alone wait. Sit is a command she knows, she does it all the time. Even the use of treats to try and reinforce the sit doesn't seem to work, she's more obsessed with getting out through the door, no matter what the treat is!

This is very time consuming and is really starting to drive us mad, especially at bedtime and when we have limited time in the morning for walkies.

The other night, I thought I was doing quite well as she was sitting and waiting, but the minute I moved in front of her to open the door fully, she lunged forward and (because I was in the way I assume) bit my knee causing quite a considerable bruise.

Another issue is that we have a baby due in around 8 weeks and the constant fuss is already getting tiresome. I also have visions of spending ages getting baby off to sleep, only to get up off the sofa and have the dog charge to the back door barking and wake the little one up!

She gets 2 x 1 hour walks a day including time running around off lead and lots of attention, plus I don't work full time so it's not as if she's left on her own.

Apologies for the long post and thank you if you have made it this far! Please, if anyone has any helpful advice I would love to hear it.

They are not 'little' issues are they, especially with a baby on the way?

If she runs to the back door barking every time one of you moves, then you've allowed her to do it and as far as she's concerned its a very good game which has now become a habit/obsession.

Just because she gets 2 x 1 hour walks a day, deosn't mean that she will be a paragon of virtue for the remaining 22 hours.

You say she knows the sit command, well I'm sorry but she doesn't - it hasn't been taught and proofed sufficiently otherwise she would sit until told to do something else.

Young border collies need a lot of mental stimulation plus an awful lot of training to prevent these types of behaviour getting out of control.

I strongly suggest you find a training class or behaviourist that understands collies and how their very active minds work.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and unsympathetic but I deal with so many collies with similar problems and it simply isn't the dogs fault.

She needs to be taught good manners. Open the door a little when she charges it, close it firmly and then wait. When she is calm open the door a little and if she charges it close it again. Get your timing right as you don't want any injuries. You need to do this at every door, not just the kitchen door. If she is controllable inside, use an inside door to teach this. When she is sitting of her own accord. Step through the door and call her through. this training is teaching her self control and good manners. You wouldn;t have a child charge through a door or a gate, you never know whats on the other side. Keep doing this until you have condiitoned the respons that door opening means sit. Then start on the outside door.

i did what grandad said above with the door didnt take long for her to catch on

No need to apologise, we are well aware that it isn't her fault. As fairly inexperienced owners, we have enlisted the help of a trainer and are trying to do everything she suggested - obviously we are either not doing enough or doing something wrong and I'm more than happy for people to give me their thoughts/benefit of their experience.

I just wanted to get some other points of view perhaps from other owners, trainers etc who may have had experience of similar problems.

I have her booked into training classes with the new trainer starting again in two weeks time to attempt to re-educate both us and the dog in order to reinforce the obedience and control, so we are taking this situation seriously. We took her to classes as a puppy and adolescent classes but, having researched local trainers and now selecting a new one, it seems some of the advice we have been given in the past has not been the best.

THIS IS FRUSTRATION BARKING FROM THE DOG. (from what you've written)

Using Negative Punishment (taking things away) e.g. closing the door etc. will make your dog MORE PISSED OFF, and more likely to 1. make her bark more or 2. make her bite you out of frustration (depending on the dog).

You need to isolate the barking behavior either by two of the methods as follows:

1. teach her to bark & teach her to shut the f-up.
this is what we call 'stimulus control'. We teach the dog to bark on cue, so we can isolate the behaviour. Then we can tell her to be quiet.

2. corrections. Positive punishment. Once you have taught her to be quiet, (with rewards food etc.) if she refuses to listen she gets corrected (Aversive). If she listens, she does not get corrected.

Most dogs can learn from just step 1. step 2. may not even be needed.

Correcting a dog is a 'no-no' if your dog has NO IDEA why she's being corrected. CORRECTIONS CAN MAKE A CERTAIN TYPE OF FRUSTRATED DOG EVEN MORE FRUSTRATED - AND, putting her on leash will probably piss her off EVEN MORE.
(restricting space, no space to run = all sorts - biting the leash, trembling, chattering of teeth, salivating, barking etc...).

Some trainers may choose STRAIGHT UP to correct a barking behaviour - in some cases in can work, in some cases, it may make it worse.

Good luck. I hope your trainer knows what he/she's doing.

I would expect improved results in 4 weeks, otherwise, scrap the trainer.

__________________
Cambridge Dog Training School | G3 Dogs
www.g3dogs.com

to add to that: (for your practical lifestyle)

you isolate the behaviour (barking) first.
then, slowly introduce/fade behaviours to your general routine.

e.g. sit, for treats, quiet, treats walk to the door treats....

If needed, you might need to start progressively (one step at a time towards the door) depending on how bad the problem is.

Alternatively, you could try sprinkling treats all teh way up to the door and outside in the garden (too busy eating to bark...)????

__________________
Cambridge Dog Training School | G3 Dogs
www.g3dogs.com

I'd expect a collie that age to need more than 2 hour-long walks a day. You say some of that time is let off, running around - how much of that time? I give my 2 yr old collie around 2 hours a day off-lead, and another 40 - 60 minutes on lead. What mental work does she get on these walks, or at home? Do you practice off-lead stays, instant downs and recalls on your walks, throw her ball but not go off to get it until told she can? Do you do scentwork, hiding things for her to find? Obedience-type training? Agility? Herding?

I think edidasa is right about frustration. Boredom too, maybe?

I think she has too much energy. She needs more walking and more mental stimulation. She is a collie and collies are bundles of energy. She needs at least 2 hours of off lead exercise, and it sounds like she needs more. She also needs games and training, such as "find the treat" or an interactive game. You could try doing agility with her (you can do this in the garden), which will get rid of some of her energy, and you could also do tricks with her, such as teaching her to bow, weave through legs, stand in her hind legs etc. Its all about exercising her brain, because I think she's pretty bored.

She also needs to learn manners and respect. She shouldn't be barging past you. If Ollie tries it, all we have to do is move in front of him and look firmly at him, and he'll sit down and wait until we tell him what to do next. Dogs have to be under control, and it sounds like she isn't.

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I OWN A CHOCOLATE ROAN COCKER SPANIEL
RIP David xx Run free at the bridge. Love you always xx 19th February 2011
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Thank you Edidasa, this is a very interesting point of view and not one I've heard previously. It makes sense but part of the issue is her charging at the door/trying to charge out of the door more so than the barking sometimes. How do I deal with this without closing the door or holding her back on a lead?