What it says on the tin really

I mentioned that I was most likely going to get a clicker for my new puppy to a co-worker and they said dont bother, just use treats and praise.

My pup is a shih tzu poodle cross so obviously I cant be filling her up with doggy treats all the time.

What are people's thoughts on the matter and does anyone know of any good web pages with the basics or even a thread on PF that I may have missed?

Thanks

I like 'Don't Shoot The Dog' by Karen Pryor.

I trained Kilo initially without clicker training....and started using one a little later on. I wish I had used one from the start as it does speed up learning and can be used for loads of things like habituation to a new harness or passing 'triggers' calmly. It works well for us as Kilo is very food - driven.

In terms of your worries about weight gain; if you are feeding kibble just use some of the pup's daily allowance in training.

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Personally I'm not a fan of clicker training. I prefer using toys. Try teaching your dog to play it helps create a strong bond. Little tuggie toys and balls are great.

Clickers are used to mark the wanted behaviour at the precise moment they show it, but it is a long process. Clickers are good for precision training or if there is an exercise you are struggling with but the trainer needs to be so precise and unfortunately most normal pet people are not. (no offence) You don't have to use an actual clicker you can use a marker word such as "yes". Clickers are useful for rescue dogs that can't be handled.

If you still want to try it go to a qualified clicker trainer not someone who says they know how. or you yourself go on a course that teaches it. thats always better!

I am not a clicker trainer - and would never pretend to be one. I'm sure there are others here that may disagree but every trainer has different preferences.
But as I say only go somewhere where they are trained to use one.

What made you think about clicker training?

I started my pups training with a clicker and it worked very well. I found it gave them the idea of the correct behaviour more quickly and precisely than a word or treat.

Even when you click that only marks the behaviour and then you follow it with a treat, the treat will be what motivates the dog, so you can use food, toys or games, a big fuss/stroke whatever.

It is good to use the clicker in conjunction with a clicker trainer simply because they will be able to break down the training and make sure that you understand exactly which point to click, something that you will need to now.

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You missed the point and are under the common misconception that c/t means food. I have trained my high drive sport dogs and only during the early puppy period where they given food. Most of the time the reinforcer was tug, biting, chasing

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The point of clicker training is to help your dog identify the exact behaviour that they are being rewarded for. A click is much more accurate than verbal praise can ever be because it is so fast, however, that is also the very reason people can struggle with it. Timing is everything.

Think of the click as the shutter on a camera and you want to take a picture of the behaviour that you are trying to achieve, for example sit. As soon as the dog touches bum to floor you click and you have your photo while your dog gets its reward. If you were to use verbal praise, such as saying 'Good Boy' then it is possible that by the time you got to the 'B' the dog could already be up and doing something else, in which case is he being praised for sitting down or for getting up? Another benefit of the clicker is that it is 100% consistent, it always sounds exactly the same no matter where you are, how tired you are or what kind of mood you are in. In contrast it is very difficult to say the same phrase over and over again without any difference in tone, duration or inflection.

The marker has to be associated with a reward, once you have done this you are telling your dog that whatever they have done at that precise moment that they got marked has earned them a reward, it doesn't have to come instantly but as long as it comes soon after, it's all good. Once again, if you were training just with treats, when the dog sits, by the time you have reached for the treat and offered it to him, he has probably started to do something else which he is then being rewarded for instead of sitting. Timing, timing and timing.

The reward can be anything that your dog likes and although it is normally food, it doesn't have to be. My dog has to sit calmly before we go out on our walk for example, when he does he gets the click and then his reward is going out. Different dogs have different motivations, some are just not interested in food, so it is just a case of finding what works best in which situation.

Search for Kikopup on youtube, she has loads of excellent training videos and you can get a really good idea of just how much is possible using just a clicker and a handful of treats.

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people look bright until you hear them speak

I used clicker training with Zimba from a pup and I found it brilliant. It's not difficult and it's not a long process. The reasons it's been used widely in zoos for decades is because it's effective and fast. You can use a word like 'yes' but the point of the clicker is that it's a unique sound to mark the behaviour.

As Dogless says you can use some of the daily food allowance for treats.

I learnt tonuse the clicker at puppy class but I'm sure there are some videos or the book Dogless as mentioned.

You can use toys as the reward but personally I found this more complicated because to repeat the behaviour I had to get the toy back, which was then teaching something else at he same time.

It's a positive training method, you won't do any harm, so try it and if it's not for you that's fine

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thanks for the advice. I'll have a look at youtube and see if I'm any clearer. I guess clicker training couldnt do any harm. I also like the camera shot analogy that was mentioned. Makes sense

Genius bit of kit- altho you will need to use food or a toy as a reward aswell.

It marks when dog gets it right- with the same consistent tone, unlike your voice which can be all over the place dependent on mood.

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Clicker training works really well for us. Like dogless I didn't start with clicker training from when she was a puppy, but I will with my next puppy (whenever that may be). She's a pretty switched on dog but she learns significantly quicker with the clicker than without. I should say I only ever use the clicker to teach new behaviours, once she knows them I don't keep clicking (but keep praising and treating).

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