Really sorry this is such a long thread

My puppy is very very excitable around other dogs and tends to hurl himself at them in excitement. This is a problem on walks because he can't be trusted to come back when another dog is in view let alone follow instructions regarding staying with me and not approaching them...he's can be similar with some people especially children.

Furthermore, he doesn't seem to take any notice of doggy body (or vocal) language from other dogs. As a result I am very quick to put him on lead when I see a dog in the distance on walks.

In greeting dogs I think he displays normal behaviour (but I'm not an expert, ) - wagging tail enthusiasticly, being bouncy, pawing at them, jumping on them.

But at our last puppy class one of the excercises was to take 2 dogs into the middle of the hall and let them off the lead to do as they like. The woman running it chose my puppy and and a bitch of similar size but who is much younger and scared of him when they greet on lead (not a great choice in my oppinion).

Anyway they wandered around a bit then started interacting, the bitch lay on her back and he got on top of her and was standing over her (at this point I wanted to get him off her but the woman had said not to intervene at the beginning). The woman then grabbed him by the collar and dragged him off her and told him "no". She then asked me "has he not been around other dogs before?" which of course he has on walks and a couple of times at a doggie friend's house (quite apart from the fact he's attended her class since he was 11weeks ).

So she said he was really dominant over the bitch and I needed to watch him...whatever thats supposed to mean (she also mentioned he had his "hackles" raised up which I thought was just a doggie reflex to be honest).

So now I'm really worried he's going to end up with "dog dog aggression".

Advice please,

Thanks

It sounds as though your classes weren't very good. The pups should have been off lead and socialising ages ago and trainer shouldn't have done what she did either.

Can you find another training class, or a socialisation class where you can take your puppy? He's getting a bit old for the early socialisation, so you'd need to find one pretty quickly I think.

Do you have any friends with dogs who could help you? Your pup needs to learn not to leap about and bounce on other dogs unless they want him to and he needs to learn it pretty soon I think. If you could take him walking on the lead with a friend and their dog also on the lead, it might help a bit.

Others might have better input, I'm not a trainer, just a dog owner who doesn't like other people's dogs jumping on their dog uninvited. I'm surprised no-one has answered you yet though.

It's really difficult to know what was going on without seeing what happened. The situation needs to be read in conjunction with the body language of both dogs which of course we can't see. For example was there any noise from either dog, any sniffing, playing, chasing, etc. Have the dogs met before. Sorry but I can't give an opinion without all the info and background. Why not ask the trainer to explain what she meant and why she thought that. If you have any doubts about the trainer then find another class.

I'm not a trainer either but I do have a youg dog who did this when I first took him on - looking at some excellent vidoes on youtube I concluded most dogs are quite capable of playing inappropriately, the trick is to stop the behviour that is bossy and upsetting to the other dog and reward better play behavior that is more equal and confidence building for both parties. I don't think I would worry too much that your dog is a dominant aggressive type - Ollie did this briefly in the park the other day to a nervous bitch - I popped him on the lead and carried on walking with his new friend - let him off again a few minutes later and he walked beautifully with her - and has never been bullying towards her again and we see her often. Success! I think I found the YouTube videos under a search for dog behaviour, or dog body language or something similar - sorry not to be more specific

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Yes I know what you mean. It was hard to see really because of where they were in the room etc.

The bitch just lay on her back and didn't do much else. There was also what the trainer called a "throaty" noise but I couldn't tell which dog it came from- she thought it was mine.

When I asked her to explain she just it needed to be "watched" and to pull him off by collar and say "no" in a growly voice.

I am planning a doggie play date with a friend this weekend and wish I could do them more oftenI just don't have any friends with dogs living locally

I was planning on moving classes but was hoping we'd be able to get our puppy foundation certificate first (although judging by how things are going at the moment that doesn't look likely to happen any time soon).

Thanks for the comments.

Hopefully your trainer will now focus on helping you with your socialisation programme and will be able to give you some tips on recognising gentle but confident dogs in the park who will give your dog a great experience when meeting new doggy friends Wishing you and your dog every success.

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First aid and homecare 4 pets

I have read that it's not a good idea to grab dogs to drag them by their collars (unless emergency?) as it can cause them to hate anyone grabbing their collar - can someone comment?

I'm not really qualified to give you advice Flatcoat but after doing a lot of reading here lately it seems that the whole dominance idea is outdated - it just sounds like your dog needs to learn how to be "polite" in doggy language and he can only learn that by interacting with other calm dogs who aren't afraid of him and will teach him.

He doesn't sound aggressive at all though, just excited to see other dogs.

[QUOTE=dimah;1061431805]I have read that it's not a good idea to grab dogs to drag them by their collars (unless emergency?) as it can cause them to hate anyone grabbing their collar - can someone comment?

I did think it was a bit of a different approach compared with the reward based training used in the class. I can't imagine being grabbed by the collar is particularly comfortable for any dog and he seems to HATE it

Lukily, we saw some familiar dogs and owners in park today and they suggested letting him off with the 3 they had with them (2 small 1 medium) as soon as he was off lead he was boyserous but seemed to be respecting them telling him when they had had enough. Another youngish dog also approached and he was fine with her and came away from her quite easily. We then walked with the dogs on lead for a bit and he was loads better than he usually would be close to other dogs...they've said he can play off-lead with their dogs whenever we see them, so I'm hoping that he'll keep improving with experience.

Many thanks

he's what?... at least 5-MO, now? He's been in puppy-class for 3-months, so he's around 6-MO -
awash in puberty. Think of him as a 12 to 14-YO boy, exuberant, physically bumptious, oblivious,
easily-excited, impulsive, easily-aroused, but not badly-intended; interrupting rude bits
will help him understand what are good interactions & what parts need to be tweaked.

i'd also be planning his desex-surgery - sometime after 7-MO but before 9-MO is generally good: there's a spike
in testosterone around 9-MO to 10-MO which is higher than his testosterone will EVER be again in his life, & that
coincides with his male-pattern behaviors getting even-more persistent & much-more intense & obnoxious.
mounting, humping, bullying younger or timid dogs, posturing at other males, pestering females, & so on -
snipping before the spike means the puppy won't practice & learn these behaviors - what the teen-boy
learns & practices becomes what the adult-male knows & does. later neutering does not eliminate
what the young-male has learned & rehearsed.



i'd toss the word 'dominance' right out of my vocabulary - It's rarely used correctly, & leads to huge
misunderstandings which can be very-bad news indeed for the dog; labeling any dog 'dominant' sticks her or him
into a specific pigeonhole, they are by definition resistant, rebellious, difficult, bossy, adversarial dogs - Right?

it's like labeling a young child 'retarded' - whether it's true or not, it means we now have an excuse NOT
to teach this child, or NOT to expect much learning; instead of focusing on the label, if we teach any child with good,
attentive, supportive methods & break skills into small steps, retarded children can learn, too - it's only a matter
of how much an individual child can learn over time, & how much an individual child can learn on their own.
obviously, a child with average intelligence can become more so with good teaching - just as neglected children
despite normal-intelligence can LOSE brain-matter & decline in intelligence.

Ur puppy sounds as tho he hasn't had much exposure to older pups & puppy-tolerant, playful adult-dogs.
i'd give him heaping helpings of dog-encounters with dogs of all ages, sexes, sizes, etc - i'd only avoid dogs
who are too short-tempered about puppy-rudeness & overcorrect or are exaggeratedly nasty about minor
infractions - AIR-SNAPS are fine, gentle mouthing is fine; bites which make the puppy yelp & flee are way too-much.

the MORE dogs he interacts with, the better his social-skills will be; off-leash is always best, if he doesn't have
a reliable recall, turn the dogs loose inside a fenced area to romp [athletic field, tennis court, home garden, ___ ].


remote possibility, but just in case
BE SURE to potty the dogs BEFORE entering the fenced area, & pick-up if by any chance either dog poops WHILE
inside the fenced-area - especially any athletic field! there are few things worse than slipping & falling
after running over dog-stool on a soccer pitch.

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tmp, sept-2007

I can't agree with the post above re neutering at around 9 months - WAY too young as his bones and joints won't have stopped growing, nor his brain matured. Cruciate ligamant and other joint problems are commoner in early-neutered dogs. There's plenty of info on the forum about this, including the science.