Hi all,

As I've mentioned my 10 month old Lab has taken to doing a runner if he hears or sees anything when out in the fields near me.....otherwise he'll stay near me quite happily....so it's just when there's distractions. When this happens I tell him sterly NO when he's about to do it - but yesterday he decided he was off anyway and this has happened before which I'm now finding to be a major setback in his training. I shouted him back and HEEEEEL! but to no avail. I have exciting treats which he regularly gets when we're out but even they won't stop him going.

Please can you advise me what to do in that situation and when I catch up with him how best to show him I wasn't pleased with that behaviour.

It causes conflicts between my husband and I (he thinks he needs more of a tough discipline approach). I get cross with the dog as my frustration level soars but I don't want to physically punish him cos I'm not sure this is the best way to be. I know he's in his adolescent stage but thankfully at least I know he's just playful and not aggressive in any way.

Thanks in advance.

Does he respond to "heel" normally?

Calling your dog back should always be a good thing - being angry in your voice will not encourage him to come running to you. Would you?

Maybe the treats are given too often? He does not have to work for the treat?

Try running with the dog to form an excitement bond, when your dog sees you running away does he chase after you?

If my dogs are distant I will run away - that is often enough to tear them away from whatever they have found.

When you dog comes back, walk a while - put the lead on - walk a while - then take the lead off again - the idea is this teaches that coming back to you is not an automatic the walk is over.

My only tip, is to make yourself more exciting than anything else. Tslk in a high and exciting voice, wave your arms and then run the other way. Even my Newfies respond to that - and thats saying something. Tough discipline is a mistake. Would you come back if you thought you were going to be in BIG trouble?

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SHAK (Safe Homes and Kindness)

As we discussed you are really up against a rebellious teenager here but like I said then, you can still win. All the answers to your problems are in the post above.

Then distract him from the distractions, be more interesting and more fun than whatever it is. Granted you may look like a complete loon job but it will work. One word of warning though, if the distraction is another dog and you constantly prevent him from interacting with them, you might be shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to adequate socialisation. I found a policy of 30 second hellos works well, you continue walking on and give the dog enough time to greet the other, quick sniff and then 'come on, lets go'.

If he gets them regularly, what makes them so exciting? Use a specific 'super-treat' only for recall from distractions. Nothing but the best, the one thing he always goes for, but you have to use it exclusively just for this one and only behaviour, never for anything else. Just as he learns to associate certain behaviours with certain cues, he will learn to associate diverting from the distraction to you with his super special reward. 'Oh, I smell squirrel, gonna go get it' You call him and he thinks 'sod the squirrel, that means super munchy time'.

If he does come back then you need to reward that, but if he doesn't come back straight away then he's blown the jackpot. Differentiate between the two and he will catch on.

There has to be one lesson, one approach and one outcome. If you and your husband use two different methods then you will get two different behaviours with the risk that the dog will never know which one to choose. Try to make your husband understand why punishing a bad recall is always a mistake. Dogs learn by associating actions with consequences, good or bad, but they can only attribute the consequence to the last action that they did. Even a bad recall is still a recall, and if the dog eventually gets to you and is punished, guess what it associates that punishment with? He should also bear in mind that aggressive and threatening behaviour, shouting, chasing etc, are hardly likely to make the dog want to come back to him in the first place. If someone shouted at you 'Come here now or I am going to kick the s#!t out of you' you would probably take off in the opposite direction wouldn't you? So it can hardly be fair to expect the dog to behave any differently.

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people look bright until you hear them speak

I would teach recall again from scratch using a whistle.
But teach the whistle recall so the dog doesn`t see it as optional.
You do this by training intensively -
when the food bowl goes down you whistle ,
when you treat you whistle,
when the dog comes near you treat and whistle.
Then when the dog is at the stage when whistle = food, use it outside but on a line. Again - only whistle when the dog is already coming to you. If he changed his mind, reel him in on the line and reward and go back a step.
Then reinforce regularly. But ...
never whistle recall your dog in training when there is a good chance he won`t come back! Which is where most people go wrong.
The `accepted` signal for recall is 3 short toots.
Best of luck.

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I understand your getting cross & I am not surprised its causing increasing tension & frictions at home & the inevitable deterioration of the quality of family life, your in a queue of many thousands & its these sort of things which are the reasons every rescue in UK are full to the brim in recent years.

That said, you should never at any time show what you describe as displeasure (which could mean lots of things) if your/any dog feels owner tensions and anger when it comes back then it will never reliably come back close to you even if well trained.

Probably the best thing to do when it comes back is keep a bland expression, say nothing & put it on lead and just walk on without saying anything and let yourself cool off avoid eye contact with the dog or it will pick up on your mood state which might make it reluctant to come right up to you next time. Admonishing any dog when it does come back to you is the foundation for it never come back.

The answers quite simple, train him to recall and allow some chases, treats are one cause of your problems youll never get a recall with that dog using them, the army will not allow treats for this sort of high drive thing, if you could you would already have a recall. The link below is the training you need to do, the dog is allowed to chase and trained to recall from chases, that’s the way to go, well, the way you must go if the problems are to stop & it ends up being on leash for the rest of its very short life & the quality of family life is reduced, owning a dog means giving the dog its freedom through training and family enjoyment at having a happy canine companion living a dogs life, which is what your dog is trying to do.

Recalls from distractions

Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


Manoy Moneelil
Showing them who's boss!

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Operant symbols

+P = Positive Punishment
-P = Negative Punishment
+R Positive Reinforcer
-R Negative Reinforcer

I think that recall is one of the hardest things to teach TBH because it depends in large part on the dog wanting to come back to you. Recall needs to be so ingrained that it becomes like "muscle memory", an automatic reaction. Just because a dog know's it's name it doesn't mean it's going to come back when it's called.

Being of lead is a privilege, not a right, and that privilege, like all privileges needs to be earned.

I agree with the above posts, I think that you should go back to basics and start recall training again from scratch. Use a long line or a horse lunge rein to trail behind the dog and start off in the back garden. Use a praise or treat to reward dog when it comes back and a whistle to call it to you.

Once you have it nailed in the garden and it is reliable everytime go to a friends (preferably bigger garden), with new smells and more distractions and repeat process until it is reliable, then progress to the park at a quiet time and repeat, then at a busier time and so on.

You have to proof any trained behaviour, in particular recall. Coming back to you in the garden is completely different to coming back in an exiting place with loads of distractions. Don't go to fast either. If the dog is failing at the park at a quiet time, go back to the friends garden and continue to practice there before moving on.

There's good advice here; to summarise
use a whistle - it doesn't ever sound cross!
go back to basics and train recall with a long line.
save the treats for when the dog recalls. If he gets them regularly, why bother to do what you want him to do?
Be more interesting, make the walks more fun with games and training excercises along the way.

Yes, it's the intensity of the positive reinforcer, >under all circumstances & distances< , used for recalls & other related exercises which trigger the recalls and related high drive things as a reward behaviour, if you watch for the intensity of >emotion< that dog in the video displays when reaching the owner and compare it the emotion displyed with a dog where treats have used as stimulus when it reaches the owner the differences are very clear.

Treat trained, compare emotional response of dog
Whistle recall - YouTube

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Operant symbols

+P = Positive Punishment
-P = Negative Punishment
+R Positive Reinforcer
-R Negative Reinforcer

I posted a thread similar to this yesterday, my 3 year old lab does the same so will be looking at the replies in more detail later to see what I can do to help.

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