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Old 21-08-2011, 10:30 PM
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is this normal?

The last week sprocket has growled/snarled 3 times. Once when being smoothed in his bed by my SIL. Once when my partner was smoothing him and once when my partner tried to get him off the bed.
On all occasions they walked away from him and he was happy to follow and wanted attention then.
Ive only owned one dog before sprocket, who never once growled at anyone or anything, so this behavior has worried me. I've been told by family not to worry and its normal. I personally don't see this as normal and it's not something i feel comfortable with.
For those who don't know, sprockets a 17 month old springer x cocker. He is neutered and has been to the vets lately and theres nothing medically wrong that would cause the above.
How should i or other family members react to his growling? I don't want to encourage it if possible.
Has anyone experienced anything similar and what were your dogs reasons? At the moment i can't see any reason for him to act this way, he's not scared of my partner or SIL and is usually extremely friendly.
Any input would be great
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Old 22-08-2011, 02:37 AM
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Re: is this normal?

Upon searching the internet, im wondering if it could be the start of resource guarding. Seems strange that one incident was in his bed and one on mine. Would i be right in thinking that the best thing to do is reinforce his "off" with lots of praise and treats? and distract the situation before it escalates? im guessing (im certainly no expert) that walking away from the situation is giving him exactly what he wants?
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Old 22-08-2011, 02:49 AM
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Re: is this normal?

I understand one of the best methods of resource guarding training is to 'exchange' what he has for something better. So if he's guarding a tennis ball, offer him a piece of cheese or whatever, whilst taking the tennis ball away - not after as you'll be training him to guard it. You're exchanging his ball for something better. Build on this over a few sessions until you can work in the cue 'drop' 'give' or 'leave', always exchanging what he has for something he wants. Then you could work on exchanging one toy for another and then asking him to give up his ball and then reward him by play. Eventually you'll be able to ask him to leave without the exchange.
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Old 22-08-2011, 05:10 AM
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Re: is this normal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katieforian View Post
The last week sprocket has growled/snarled 3 times. Once when being smoothed in his bed by my SIL. Once when my partner was smoothing him and once when my partner tried to get him off the bed.
On all occasions they walked away from him and he was happy to follow and wanted attention then.
Ive only owned one dog before sprocket, who never once growled at anyone or anything, so this behavior has worried me. I've been told by family not to worry and its normal. I personally don't see this as normal and it's not something i feel comfortable with.
For those who don't know, sprockets a 17 month old springer x cocker. He is neutered and has been to the vets lately and theres nothing medically wrong that would cause the above.
How should i or other family members react to his growling? I don't want to encourage it if possible.
Has anyone experienced anything similar and what were your dogs reasons? At the moment i can't see any reason for him to act this way, he's not scared of my partner or SIL and is usually extremely friendly.
Any input would be great
I never go over to a dog to stroke them. Even my own. I wait for them to come to me or call them over. If you approach a dog and you are not aware of your body language they could see that as a threat and growl to warn you off. just be aware of how you approach your dog.
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Old 22-08-2011, 02:35 PM
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Re: is this normal?

Thanks for the replies. According to my OH he asked sprocket to get "off" (which he knows) and he started growling at him, he didn't approach him or try and physically get him off of the bed. From now on i'll ask everyone to reward/exchange his "off" and ask them not to approach him for the time being. I just find it odd how it's come out of the blue when he's always been so laid back about everything and everyone. I thought at his age we near enough got his personality worked out.
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Old 23-08-2011, 10:52 AM
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Re: is this normal?

Could be the dog is telling you he wants to be left alone.

I once had an incident with Ziggy when she growled/curled her lip at me. She was on my bed and I wanted her to shove over so I could get on it too. I hauled her off before she knew what was happening, dragged her downstairs and shut her in the bathroom overnight. She howled for 2 hours which I ignored. She slept in there for the rest of the week, then I allowed her back in the bedroom but in her own bed on the floor. After another couple of weeks I let her jump up for a few minutes in the morning. Eventually she went back to sleeping on the bed. She has never threatened me again.

In your situation, I think don't approach the dog when he's in his bed (let sleeping dogs lie), leave him alone. Call him to you for any affection. Practice your training of 'off' and use a house line to haul him off if he doesn't comply. Reward well when he does.
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Old 23-08-2011, 12:00 PM
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Lightbulb Re: is this normal? // Yes, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katieforian View Post
...[in] the last week Sprocket has growled/snarled 3 times.
Once when being smoothed in his bed by my SIL.
Once when my partner was smoothing him
and once when my partner tried to get him off the bed.
On all occasions they walked away from him & he was happy to follow and wanted attention then.

Ive only owned one dog before sprocket, who never once growled at anyone or anything, so this behavior [worries] me.
I've been told by family not to worry and its normal. I personally don't see this as normal and it's not something
i feel comfortable with.
the only other option to 'let me know when U feel threatened' is, 'don't tell me - just SHOW me',
which means skip the growl, & as most humans miss all the other, more-subtle dog signals before growls,
that means bite "without warning". Dogs do warn - we miss the warnings.

eliminating growls is the equivalent of pulling the pin on a hand-grenade: explosions can happen any time.
a growl is not a threat - it's a communication; dogs need a clear, unambiguous way to say,
"U are scaring me now...", or ,"i'm getting angry...", or, "i feel threatened...", AND HAVE US LISTEN.
growls IMO are absolutely critical signals, which we need, & should heed immediately; they are distance-increasing,
& there's nothing wrong with giving a growling dog precisely what they're asking for: more space.

the first thing i'd suggest is not looming-over Sprocket to 'pet him' while he's in his own bed.
looming-over is threatening body-language, & i don't know if he was fully-awake, dozing, unwell, tired,
had a bone or a pig-ear in the bed with him, etc - but if he's ON his bed, i'd call him to me for interaction.
of course, *not* for anything he won't like - that spoils his recall cue.
so if i want to give him a claw-trim or a bath, or anything else he's not keen on, i call him off his bed for some
other, more-cheerful reason, first; then AFTER he's had some happy time, we can do the claw-trim or the bath.
so i'd make his bed off-limits to humans; as long as he's on his bed, leave him be.

what was the dog doing just before Ur partner petted him?
where was he? where was Ur partner? what postures were they in - standing, lying, sitting?
who else was nearby? did U witness it? what did U see?

i'd teach Sprocket to get up on the bed on cue, & off with a verbal cue; very simple,
pat the bed invitingly, he jumps up, TREAT; lure him off with a sweeping motion & his Sacred name, TREAT.
add a verbal "up" & "Off" only after he is getting up & off with the hand-signal alone 4 times of 5;
keep the hand-signal as a visual bridge until the verbal is learned very solidly, again 4 times of 5
he can get up & off on the FIRST cue, readily. Then U can use either hand-cue or verbal, or both at once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katieforian View Post
...Sprocket's a 17-MO Springer x Cocker... neutered,... been to the vets lately & there's nothing medically wrong
that would cause the above.
How should i or other family members react to his growling? I don't want to encourage it if possible.
it's not "encouraging" growls - it's ELICITING growls: humans do things that make dogs feel anxious,
or that were precursors in the past of things the dog hated or feared or that hurt - they see X & expect Y,
& they absolutely hated Y the last time; they don't want it again, so they growl.

dogs have a right to their feelings, just as we do; emotions are valid.
but we can change the dog's emotional response to things that worry, anger, or scare the dog.
it's not that complex; desensitization & counter-conditioning are pretty straightforward processes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katieforian View Post
Has anyone experienced anything similar and what were your dogs reasons?
At the moment i can't see any reason for him to act this way, he's not scared of my partner or SIL
& is usually extremely friendly.
without being there, we can't even take a guess; there could be any number of possible triggers,
from looming to proximity to a valued resource. A video might be helpful, but it's more important to avoid
triggering a growl again than it is to know 'why'.
A video might not even show what we need to see -
if he's lying on top of a pig's-ear, we'd never know that's why he tenses up & goes rigid when SIL goes to him
while he's lying in his bed - or perhaps it's his fave ball behind him, but it's unseen from the camera's POV.

growls are not evil; U are labeling them 'bad'. We want to avoid causing growls, but we want & need
the dog to be able to growl - punishing a growl is a really, really bad idea. We want to notice when they happen,
& work on re-teaching that situation so the dog is comfy with it, or simply avoid it entirely. Looming over the dog
while he's lying in his bed is easily avoided, & if he needs to be bandaged, etc, it can be done elsewhere,
or his bone & toy removed before he's on the bed to be bandaged, etc.
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Old 23-08-2011, 12:22 PM
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Exclamation "shove over..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrowzig View Post
emphasis added -

...Ziggy... growled/curled her lip at me. She was on my bed & I wanted her to shove over
so I could get on it too. I hauled her off before she knew what was happening, dragged her
down [the] stairs
, & shut her in the bathroom overnight.
the part in bold is a great recipe for being bitten; i would not suggest it.

hauling or dragging by the collar is a terrific short-cut to a dog who freezes rigid & then bites
when someone grabs their collar - say, when they escape the house & some poor Good Samaritan tries
to catch the dog for U, & then needs stitches, afterward. Or the vet tech tries to restrain the dog
on the exam table for a rectal-temp, & is immediately bitten in the face. Or the groomer holds the dog's collar
to clip the overhead grooming-arm to the dog's collar, & is promptly bitten.

Collar-grabs can be necessary in an emergency, & every dog IMO should be desensitized to them,
NOT taught that collar-grabs mean anger, punishment, or that scary, unpredictable human-behavior
will follow a collar-grab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrowzig View Post
emphasis added -

...She has never threatened me again.
IMO she did not threaten U - she expressed her feelings, in the only way she can.
humans aren't telepaths or empaths, & dogs need a way to let us know when they're scared, worried, angry,
defensive, feeling invaded, in pain, startled, whatever it might be.

in this case, i presume "shove over" means just that - U tried to push the dog to one side.
that's pretty rude, & it's easily avoided: ask the dog to move over simply by patting the bed where U want
her/him to go - no rude shoving is needed. If someone tried to bodily shove me over in my own bed,
i'd growl, too.
that it's YOUR bed does not make shoving OK; U shared it with the dog, the dog was there first;
a little politeness never hurts.

if U have a dog who refuses to share the bed politely, or get off when asked, DON'T give that dog access.
very simple: close the bedroom door when U aren't in there, have the dog sleep in a crate in the bedroom
so that they cannot get up on the bed at 3-am - or have the dog sleep elsewhere, entirely,
& close the bedroom door - or use a baby-gate.

i prefer the dog[s] be in my bedroom in case of emergencies - that way i know where they are,
they know where i am, & we can deal with whatever arises as quickly as possible. Sickness, fire, storms
& other calamities can happen at unexpected times. Other folks have the dog in the hallway, downstairs,
in the laundry room, asleep on the sofa... whatever.
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Old 23-08-2011, 12:39 PM
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Re: is this normal?

LFL has given you some really useful advice.

I would also add that if this is something new (ie change in behaviour quite suddenly), then you might want to take your doglet to the vets for a check up in case there is some pain somewhere.
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Old 24-08-2011, 02:21 PM
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Re: is this normal?

Thank you all for your replies.
LFL - Your reply has really helped me understand a little more. I will defiantly take your advise on board and get anyone in the house to do the same. As far as i am aware there wasn't any toys or treats with him on all occasions. I think i have pinpointed why he may have reacted when in his bed. My 2 year old nephew was here all day (8am-7pm) and although sprocket adores him i'm wondering if he went into his bed for some peace and quiet and wasn't happy about being disturbed, which is understandable. We will now call him to us and not approach him when he is in his bed. With my partner i'm wondering if it may of been body language, that he or i was unaware of. He's rather muscly and his voice is deep when he asks sprocket to do something, so sprocket might of been intimidated. Sprockets on and off is brilliant for me but not so great for other people. I will ask my OH to do some work on this with him, so he sees commands from him as a good thing just as he does with me.
Although we went to the vets not so long ago, i think i'd prefer to get him checked again just in case. He's prone to UTI's and skin problems so that might be playing a part.
Thanks again!
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