Recall Rant (arggghhhh!!!) - Page 3

Colliepoodle · #21 (**permalink**) 30-10-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundee

Just a thought, but mine are trained to a whistle (as well as voice and hand signals), and a whistle does get a dogs attention better than voice, particularly when the voice has been ignored. It will need training - it doesn't just happen, but a whistle command is much more consistent.

I use three pips for recall and a pup will be introduced to it on it's first day. Initially I will use it at dinner time to call a dog over for dinner. It will start to associate it with good things. Then you need to train it in all the different situations... starting with an easy situation and then working your way up to distractions.

I heartily agree. I've only recently started whistle training my girls and find that the whistle is FAR more "ear-catching" than voice. Probably because a) the dogs' ears pick up the higher tone more easily and b) the ONLY time they hear the whistle is when they know I'm going to be legging it in the other direction with the best of the best treats on my person.

louise5031 · #22 (**permalink**) 30-10-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundee

Just a thought, but mine are trained to a whistle (as well as voice and hand signals), and a whistle does get a dogs attention better than voice, particularly when the voice has been ignored. It will need training - it doesn't just happen, but a whistle command is much more consistent.

I use three pips for recall and a pup will be introduced to it on it's first day. Initially I will use it at dinner time to call a dog over for dinner. It will start to associate it with good things. Then you need to train it in all the different situations... starting with an easy situation and then working your way up to distractions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colliepoodle

I heartily agree. I've only recently started whistle training my girls and find that the whistle is FAR more "ear-catching" than voice. Probably because a) the dogs' ears pick up the higher tone more easily and b) the ONLY time they hear the whistle is when they know I'm going to be legging it in the other direction with the best of the best treats on my person.

Thanks, useful advice. I have actually recently bought a whistle so have just started training him to come to it in the house, its working quite well so hopefully things will start to improve soon. I've also met a lady at the park with 11 dogs all with perfect recall so am going to start walking with her, hopefully we will both start to learn lol

Bobbie · #23 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 10:28 AM

Thanks Dundee you really gave a lot of good info. As some of us do struggle at times. Mine by the way does come to the whistle ( not lady like I know )

fun4fido · #24 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louise5031

So all the progress we made last week, when I actually started really enjoying the walks, has completely gone out the window. No matter how much I run frantically away like a complete loon squeaking his tennis ball, calling him or whistling, nothing works now. He looks up and as I encourage him towards me by running, squeaking his ball & throwing it, showing him the treats, and whistling, he looks back at the other dog and runs off with it. This is getting so embarrassing now

I hate it that my training isn't working. In the house he comes immediately to my whistle and name-call, and each time he does so I reward him with a treat or a game of tug. In an empty field he will also come immediately when I start running/whistling/calling him.

I cannot possibly make myself anymore fun than another dog is to him

Last week even mid-play with two young bitches he came as soon as I started to walk off and whistled and called. We had some really lovely walks, meeting loads of other dogs but he still would always come when I called. Each time he did as was asked I treated with a piece of tasty ham/cheese, sparked up a game of chase, and threw his ball for him to fetch. But none of that is working now

yesterday he was playing with a jack russell, then the owner had to go so called his dog and off they both trotted together... with Zach being a nuisance following them!! I finally got his attention and he came to me, I did not show him I was annoyed, I carried on running and threw his ball.. then the next minute he disappeared and ran like hell to get back to the jack russell.

This is really getting me down, I know it sounds stupid but I just feel like such a failure, every other dog owner in the park has perfect recall, even puppies younger than him. I just cant enjoy my time with him. As suggested by a few people I have kept him on lead - this just doesnt wear him out enough and I feel so mean, he usually really enjoys his walks. Today I tried the long line - doesnt work, just tangles him up and he chokes himself trying to get to the other dogs. When I call and tug the line he just lays down in protest, hes getting so stubborn.

help?

Ps. How long did it take you to teach your dogs perfect recall?

Hi Lousie,

Sorry that you're getting frustrated, but do remember that Zach is entering adolescence now so thinks he knows best. So persevere with training even if you think nothing is getting through, as it will all pay off when he reaches 18 months... yes 18 months is a long ways away, but adolescence is something all dogs go through some more than others.

It's interesting that whatever you were doing was working for you last week, so why not try to think about what is different this week?

Was your mood different last week, were you feeling more confident, were there less distractions, etc.

Maybe you have progressed too fast this week, so take a few steps back.

Natik · #25 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 02:42 PM

i too agree that u do it the right way ... it just takes a bit of time.
on their own my dogs recall is fantastic but i dont trust maya off the lead when other dogs are about as she is a dog maniac....she wouldnt listen and just run up annoying the sh@t out of the other dog

When they both are off lead at the same time they only listen when they are not chasing each other

Or busy with sniffing something

then i can make the weirdest noises in the world and they will not even look at me

fun4fido · #26 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundee

Just a thought, but mine are trained to a whistle (as well as voice and hand signals), and a whistle does get a dogs attention better than voice, particularly when the voice has been ignored. It will need training - it doesn't just happen, but a whistle command is much more consistent.

I use three pips for recall and a pup will be introduced to it on it's first day. Initially I will use it at dinner time to call a dog over for dinner. It will start to associate it with good things. Then you need to train it in all the different situations... starting with an easy situation and then working your way up to distractions.

Yep!

I trained my Weim from an early age to voice, hand signals, and whistle, it all takes time, but well worth it in the end.

I've also worked extremely hard on the chase recall, which is when Harley is at full tilt toward something very interesting, and I use a whistle and my voice to recall him. Took months of consistent and determined training from an early age, but now he will literally do a u-shape straight back to me, and of course I reward him appropriately with a very high value piece of home-made dried beef liver, and a quick frisbee game.

I think games are very important and it really helps if you find something that your dog is crazy for, with Harley it's frisbee

louise5031 · #27 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 03:28 PM

Thanks DPT, it definately is going to take a lot of consistency from my part which I find difficult as admittedly I'm very impatient. However I'm determined to get this to work as I know how lovely it was last week when we enjoyed our walks together. I'm meeting the lady with all her dogs this afternoon and will whistle call all the other dogs back and play/treat when zach comes too. Hopefully this will start to sink in.

One question, when did your dogs start really enjoying games on walks? Zach does like fetching the tennis ball and will eagerly play tug/football/frisbee at home but when we go out hes just really not that interested. The reason I ask is because DPT you said Harley loves his frisbee, and the lady's black lab will sit ignoring all the other dogs because shes so desperate for the lady to throw the ball. Are all dogs meant to be like this (retrievers mainly I'm talking about) or do some just prefer play with other dogs? Or is it just that he's a pup and will soon grow into liking games with me?

jacks4me · #28 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundee

I hope you're not paying for that sort of advice

I agree with Shane, I think your instructor is wrong. What appalling advice to be giving out.

As a trainer I totally agree with you.One of the first things we teach is the recall as it is such a priority.Sounds like the instuctor is a give up kind of person and owners just have to find one they are happy with.Things dont happen overnight and owners need to be taught that and learn to persist and be patient with their training.Sounds like everyone has covered all other aspects.

fun4fido · #29 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louise5031

Thanks DPT, it definately is going to take a lot of consistency from my part which I find difficult as admittedly I'm very impatient. However I'm determined to get this to work as I know how lovely it was last week when we enjoyed our walks together. I'm meeting the lady with all her dogs this afternoon and will whistle call all the other dogs back and play/treat when zach comes too. Hopefully this will start to sink in.

One question, when did your dogs start really enjoying games on walks? Zach does like fetching the tennis ball and will eagerly play tug/football/frisbee at home but when we go out hes just really not that interested. The reason I ask is because DPT you said Harley loves his frisbee, and the lady's black lab will sit ignoring all the other dogs because shes so desperate for the lady to throw the ball. Are all dogs meant to be like this (retrievers mainly I'm talking about) or do some just prefer play with other dogs? Or is it just that he's a pup and will soon grow into liking games with me?

As with all things its down to early conditioning (and 6 months is still early enough so don't worry).

Zach just needs to be conditioned and learn that you hold the key to resources that are really fun.

Again its best to start off at home with these games and find out which one makes him really excited, then in conjunction with whistle training, when you recall Zach at home with whistle and your voice, reward him with treats and a high energy game that you know he really loves.

You'll need to do this over several months, starting at home, then as Zach becomes reliable in one location with low distractions, build on adding new locations and level of distractions.

I really can't stress how slowly this should progress, so you'll need to put your patience hat on

As you've studied Psychology you'll understand the Pavlov's Bell principle of classical conditioning.

After months of conditioning Zach should pair the sound of the whistle with coming back to you for high value treats and an exciting game.

Colliepoodle · #30 (**permalink**) 31-10-2008, 06:16 PM

I must admit that when I first got my girl, what with her being so dog obsessed, I struggled to "get" how ANY treat/game I could offer her would ever be more attractive to her than another dog.

This is where the low-distraction training comes in. Do it LOADS. Because you will eventually find that the dog gets to the stage where he is spinning back towards you when he hears the recall cue without thinking about it; it becomes so automatic, so ingrained that even if he doesn't actually favour what you've got over what he is planning to do, he is acting on a conditioned impulse which, if you've practised enough, he can't resist

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