Toilet Training NOT Working!!

josel · #1 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 07:40 PM

Hi all,
I have a 11 week old female English Springer Spaniel. We have had Lilly for 3weeks now and she has had all of her injections.
She has 4 meals a day. After each meal we place her on old newspaper inside the dining room. We stay with her for 20-30mins and nothing happens. But as soon as I give up and walk off she does her buisiness immeadiatley in the living room or the kitchen.
I even place her in the garden, I stay with her for a full hour and again nothing happens. And as soon as we walk into the house she does her buisiness.

Can anyone advice me how to get Lilliy toilet trained.

RAINYBOW · #2 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 07:45 PM

She is very young still so you wouldnt expect her to have much understanding yet but you need to first decide where you want her to go, personally i wouldnt bother with paper in the house and as its ummer would take her outside. When she goes next soak it into some paper or a rag and put that in the garden, you need to take her out for short intervals every 20-30 minutes and after play, sleep, food and drink. Take her on a lead over to the rag and let her sniff about, bring her in if nothing after a couple of minutes but then try again 5-10 minutes later. Whe she does go make sure you have a tasty treat with you and give her lots of praise

Toilet training takes time and hard work plus a hefty dose of patience.

SixStar · #3 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 07:51 PM

First of all, give the pup a break - she is 11 weeks, I wouldn't expect ANY pup to be anywhere near toilet trained at that age, she's still a baby.

Newspaper/training pads are a waste of time and cash IMO. I think they confuse the pup - after all, they're teaching them to go inside, and that's not what we want! I'd do away with them and start taking her out into the garden.

After every time she has eaten, had a drink, after playtime, after waking up, before bed or every 2 hours, take her outside and stay out there for 10/15 minutes – no longer. Have the puppy on a lead so she cannot get distracted and go play, and wait with her outside - if she toilets add in your toileting command (I use ''be quick'') and then give her HEAPS of praise, and I mean your best hyper, happy, crazy voice - lots of squealing and running around the garden, sod what the neighbours think

It's also a good idea to reserve some extra tasty treats purely for toilet training - tiny pieces of cheese or cooked chicken maybe, and use these along with your nutty praise dance!

If she doesn't toilet though then simply take her back indoors - if she then shows signs of needing to go (circling, sniffing the floor etc) then take her straight back outside - but if you're not quick enough and she begins to go indoors just simply pick her up and whisk her straight out again. Never tell her 'no' for toileting, even in the house, as she may think she can't go at all!

During the night, do the same thing - set your alarm to go off a couple of times in the night and take her out to the loo - stay out there with her for 10/15 minutes and if she toilets, then plenty of praise or if not, back inside to bed again.

Scrub down all areas in the house where she has previously toileted with hot water and bio washing powder, it'll remove all traces of smell so she won't be attracted back there again.

Do away with the pads, stock up on training treats and be patient - she'll get there, toilet training takes time

franob · #4 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 08:28 PM

Charlie is nearly 11 weeks (tomorrow!) and he is 95% there - somehow!!! I think you just have to try to put your puppy in the situation where you can catch her doing something right and then whack on the praise!

If you take her out into the garden every hour-ish and after key things (sleep, food, drinks, play) then you should be able to catch her doing something right - wee'ing etc outside. If she still comes in and wee's then I'd make the intervals smaller to give you more chances to catch it right.

Once she has seen the loopy praise for doing it outside you'll be onto more of a winner.

Have you ever told her off for wee'ing in the house? If so she might not want you to see her wee - just a thought based on things I've read!

leashedForLife · #5 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josel

Hi all,
...11-WO female English Springer Spaniel, ... Lilly [has lived with us] for 3 weeks... and she's had all of her injections.
She has 4 meals a day. After each meal we place her on old newspaper inside the dining room.
We stay with her for 20-30-mins & nothing happens. ...[b]as soon as I give up and walk off, she does her [business]
[immediately, sic] in the living room or the kitchen.
I even place her in the garden, I stay with her for a full hour and again nothing happens. And as soon as we walk
into the house, she does her [business].

* have U read the sticky on housetraining?
there are LINKS in it for books [2 are free downloads], articles, websites, etc.
i'd start there.

* at 11-WO, she can only wait 3-hours max between potty trips -
since the rule is, age in months + 1 = max-number of hours between potty trips
without triggers. any triggering event is separate & gets its own potty-trip.

* there are only 3 possibilities:
- she has an anatomical or medical problem -
bladder adhesions to the abdominal wall, a tilted bladder, a stenosis in the ureter...
or a kidney infection, bladder infection, IBD, inadequate bowel maturity [poor gut motility, sphincters
lack muscle tone, bacterial overgrowth...]

- she is inadequately supervised -
she's left alone in another room; she has too much space allowed to her; she's out of her crate while
U're in the shower, she's in the kitchen while U watch TV in the parlor...

- she's not scheduled to fit her needs -
she is empty when U take her out, & full when U have her in... off-leash & out of her crate.
it's a matter of getting her out when she needs to void, the full bladder or bowel need to coincide
with the potty-trips.

i suspect it is C - she's going out to potty at times she does not need to, & inside when she needs to void.
also, she's only 11-weeks old - her sphincters do not become operational for another week,
she must be scheduled as she is on automatic: she's got a full bladder or bowel? she empties.
she can choose "where" to a degree - here on the wall-to-wall or there on the lino - but not when.
it's involuntary & automatic.

even after her sphincters are working, she needs to build muscle tone to hold them closed against
the pressure of urine or stool - which takes a few weeks overnight, & usually a few more weeks for daytime hours,
as the triggers are things that happen when she [and U] are awake & about: meals, drinks, active play,
anything exciting, waking from a nap, are all triggers - each requires an immediate trip to the garden,
yard or curbside grass.

most pups are clean & dry overnight by 15 to 16-WO, and clean & dry for 8-hours during the day by 6-MO.

an adult should be setting an alarm for 3-AM each night, having a robe or jacket or ___ ready to slip on,
treats in the pocket, a poop-bag if U need one, slippers or shoes out, the leash on the crate-roof,
and the pup in her shipping-crate within arms-length of the bed; get up, pee if U need to, dress as needed,
pick up the leash, open the crate, lift out the pup & carry the baby outside, clip the leash on,
set the pup down in a familiar potty-spot, and wait, standing still, for results.
puppy squats, warm sincere praise, offer the treat as soon as s/he stands up from squatting,
still verbally praising - walk the pup back inside, crate the pup, peel off the duds, go back to bed.

elapsed time: 10-mins or less. clean crate in the AM, no crying pup...

the puppy's shipping-crate should be bare - no bedding, no cushions, no blanket to wee on, nada.
the plastic surface is not so chilly as a metal tray, & the pup is [presumably] indoors in a controlled temp
environment, not sweltering in heat nor shivering in cold nor wet by rain.

franob · #6 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leashedForLife

* have U read the sticky on housetraining?
there are LINKS in it for books [2 are free downloads], articles, websites, etc.
i'd start there.

* at 11-WO, she can only wait 3-hours max between potty trips -
since the rule is, age in months + 1 = max-number of hours between potty trips
without triggers. any triggering event is separate & gets its own potty-trip.

* there are only 3 possibilities:
- she has an anatomical or medical problem -
bladder adhesions to the abdominal wall, a tilted bladder, a stenosis in the ureter...
or a kidney infection, bladder infection, IBD, inadequate bowel maturity [poor gut motility, sphincters
lack muscle tone, bacterial overgrowth...]

- she is inadequately supervised -
she's left alone in another room; she has too much space allowed to her; she's out of her crate while
U're in the shower, she's in the kitchen while U watch TV in the parlor...

- she's not scheduled to fit her needs -
she is empty when U take her out, & full when U have her in... off-leash & out of her crate.
it's a matter of getting her out when she needs to void, the full bladder or bowel need to coincide
with the potty-trips.

i suspect it is C - she's going out to potty at times she does not need to, & inside when she needs to void.
also, she's only 11-weeks old - her sphincters do not become operational for another week,
she must be scheduled as she is on automatic: she's got a full bladder or bowel? she empties.
she can choose "where" to a degree - here on the wall-to-wall or there on the lino - but not when.
it's involuntary & automatic.

even after her sphincters are working, she needs to build muscle tone to hold them closed against
the pressure of urine or stool - which takes a few weeks overnight, & usually a few more weeks for daytime hours,
as the triggers are things that happen when she [and U] are awake & about: meals, drinks, active play,
anything exciting, waking from a nap, are all triggers - each requires an immediate trip to the garden,
yard or curbside grass.

most pups are clean & dry overnight by 15 to 16-WO, and clean & dry for 8-hours during the day by 6-MO.

[B]an adult should be setting an alarm for 3-AM each night, having a robe or jacket or ___ ready to slip on,
treats in the pocket, a poop-bag if U need one, slippers or shoes out, the leash on the crate-roof,
and the pup in her shipping-crate within arms-length of the bed; get up, pee if U need to, dress as needed,
pick up the leash, open the crate, lift out the pup & carry the baby outside, clip the leash on,
set the pup down in a familiar potty-spot, and wait, standing still, for results.
puppy squats, warm sincere praise, offer the treat as soon as s/he stands up from squatting,
still verbally praising - walk the pup back inside, crate the pup, peel off the duds, go back to bed.

the puppy's shipping-crate should be bare - no bedding, no cushions, no blanket to wee on, nada.
the plastic surface is not so chilly as a metal tray, & the pup is [presumably] indoors in a controlled temp
environment, not sweltering in heat nor shivering in cold nor wet by rain.

Sorry Leashed for life - but I have to disagree with some of this! Every puppy is different - Charlie has been totally clean/dry overnight since day one at 8 weeks. He doesn't need us to set an alarm for every few hours overnight!

A bare crate with nothing in it? Er, I think not if you are expecting a puppy to sleep comfortably. If your puppy wee's on a blanket then - wash it!!

leashedForLife · #7 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franob

...I have to disagree with some of this! Every puppy is different -
Charlie has been totally clean/dry overnight since day one at 8 weeks.

obviously U have won the lotto!

well-done, Charlie - he's a miracle.

none of my pups have arrived already-housetrained, but OTOH all of the pups i have raised went thru
their housetraining period with zero accidents - i am not counting pups who vomit or have diarrhea,
since those can happen even with adult dogs, & they are unplanned & cannot be scheduled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by franob

He doesn't need us to set an alarm for every few hours overnight!

i said nothing about 'every few hours'

once, approx 4-hours after going to bed,
which for me is around 3-am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by franob

A bare crate with nothing in it? Er, I think not if you are expecting a puppy to sleep comfortably.
If your puppy [wees, sic] on a blanket[,] then - wash it!!

all my pups & my clients' pups who have been crated at their homes, or who were being pet-sat in their own homes,
have slept just fine in bare shipping-crates - in climate controlled houses, heated in winter, cooled in summer,
there is no need for bedding.

chew-toys of safe materials? solid rubber, solid nylon, hefty rope?... Sure!
stuffed & frozen Kongs as pacifiers or busy-work? Great!
food-puzzles to pull apart as something to do? Fine!...

no blankets to encourage pee by sopping it up; no towels to kick over the poop,
no cushy pads to chew and swallow hunks...

nothing to shred, rip, eat - but food,
or safe non-toxic food puzzles.

no toys with small parts or glued-on eyeballs or squeakers to pull out or stuffing to swallow.
nothing filled with styrofoam beads or polyurethane foam or other upholstery fillings.
safety - first, last & always.

leashedForLife · #8 (**permalink**) 20-05-2011, 10:46 PM

a free Puppy Potty Training Guide - from the Perfect Puppy in 7 Days, by Sophia Yin DVM,
an e-book with more than 25 photos & step-by-step instructions!
Download here:
Free Puppy Potty Training Guide

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