I don't understand your statement

Yes. Don't let pupster get it wrong and they will always get it right.

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Jack - Black Labrador
Nalsy & Ponch - Purebred bedwarming moggies

i think was rona is saying is thats its far easier to quickly run through steps one to four to ensure the dog understands than failing at step four and confusing the dog even more???? going back to ground zero much of the time is part and parcel of retraining and proofing any command. regardless of whether its a pet, a gundog, or any other discipline, the basics at heel are the foundation of all training. no fancy words in that statement

Thats how i read it and having seen the result of allowing Oscat to fail too many times early on because i was even more clueless then than now i am trying to make sure if i am going to bother to teach him anything else A) It's worth teaching and B) i teach it properly so it sticks.

I taught Oscars CLOSE command almost by accident and it is the one command i never asked for unless i knew i would get it and it is without question his strongest command. His recall and heel work is flakey because my training has been inconsistent in this area due to my circumstances (not an excuse i just cant always focus on oscar when we are out so i had to accept early on that he would have to be what he would be in some respects)

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"I am not perfect and i don't have to be, before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean" - Bob Marley

https://sites.google.com/site/blisschalet/

I think this thread is going round in circles a little now, and although I understand what you're saying Rob, and yes, Rainybow's Oscar is a pet, I think the same ethos applies. You always need to reinforce the basics, I don't know anyone with highly competitive, or fabulous working dogs, that doesn't spend time reinforcing the building blocks of the exercises they ask their dogs to do. Going back to doing stops on lead at heel, reinforces the command, it doesn't mean you have to stop trying to push that command to use it with distance.

I think there are also bound to be different ways to train something, I've come across so many different ways to train 'heel', one of the most difficult concepts for people to teach to their dog, and yet such a simple thing.

Thank you, that's exactly my point

Excuse me! Once again, I said revising basics is good.

Now the way you are saying, noone can ever try anything new with the dog, there's always uncertainty the first time, when you proof against higher distraction. Also dogs fail all the time in training, even with luring. Many breeds are even reliable after 50 practices runs, not first time!

The concept of variable reinforcement find 80% is satisfactory success rate.

What you are advocating is strictly impossible, you could never do anything knew or when there's doubt involved. Guess what, life's not like that, pets aren't around lethal weapons and the impossible 100% success you guys are advocating of a very cautious safety culture is not applicable.