Methical - for an update since we last spoke about this. I did find a dog trainer, went to see him and had a good moan about the recall. He simply asked if we had complete control in the house - I said no.

He said before we regain control in the house there is no way we'll be able to teach recall because he doesnt have a clue who the leader is; who's in charge. He has taught us how to walk to heel and has gone on holiday for 2weeks, and until he gets back and comes to our house to teach us to regain control, we aint allowed to let him off lead. Apparently the more you are letting the dog off the worse it will get as they are always being positively reinforced... every time they ignore you they get a treat (in the form of play with another dog) and so he is literally learning to run off rather than learning to come back... doh.

We apparently have to know he will come back before we let him off.

Could be his way of getting a pricey set of lessons... but I'm willing to give it a go...

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Ok, thanks for keeping me posted. We do have total control with her in the house. The only thing we have issues with is her jumping up, and she's recently getting very nippy when excited. But always comes when called, always stays, down, roll over, fetch anything she knows, she will do, first time, no treats. Brilliant.

As soon as we are outside....different dog.

I did think this but then i thought....she's a large breed, high energy dog. If i dont let her off the lead.....she doesnt get exercised untill my girlfriend can drive us to the forest......on Fri / Sat / Sun so....thats really not much of a life if you ask me. I mean i can take her on long, leaded walks, but by the time i am needing to sit down and have a lil drink and a pant, shes only just got warm. To tire her out sufficiently, on the lead, id need to do nothing all day bar eat, sleep and walk. Not possible.

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Handle every stressful situation like a dog; If you cannot eat it or play with it, simply pee on it and walk away !

Louise I disagree with your trainer, if you never let him off how will he ever learn? Dogs learn by doing and they know you are the leader without all the mumbo jumbo that some trainers and behaviourists posion the air with. If they don't come back they simply don't want to because the distraction is more rewarding than the reward for coming back.

All my puppies have been walked off lead from the day they came home to me, all without any problems. If you keep him stuck on the lead he will see being off the lead as much more of a special treat and be even less inclined to come to you. If you only recall him when you really need him to return to you he will be much more inclined to return on your call.

Methical I never had a problem with other dogs coming over to him on the lead because they were usually too far away to want to come to him and also because the dogs around here are generally very well behaved and well trained.

Say it once and if she doesn't come either reel her in or just carry on and ignore her, don't keep repeating the command if it isn't being followed. When she does come to you repeat the command until she reaches you, this will drill what the command means into her, then reward the good behaviour and go from there.

Sorry I didnt explain properly what was going to happen.

The reason we are not letting him off at all at the min is because the guy is on holiday and doesnt want us to do any more damage while he isnt there to help. I think if he hadnt been going on holiday he would of been able to get stuck right into training (I have a feeling it will be the long line technique) which would of made sure we are teaching zach the right way before just letting him off our way with no results whatsoever.

I dont for one minute think he will only recall the dog when we really need him to, thats the reason we are going to training... to make sure he comes everytime - so we know (or are a lot more sure than we are now) he will come back before we let him off.

I think the point the trainer was trying to make was doing it our way - with no control whatsoever - Zach is learning to completely ignore us and the situation will not get any better unless we try another technique

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I was taught at dog training to teach recall on lead until sure the dog obeyed the command without hesitating.
Maybe you could use the long line to help teach the 'come' voice command and also as a precaution for stepping on if needed but how about trying a dog whistle. Whistle = treat.
Sometimes we can have different tones in our voices without realising it, if we are in a bad mood or frustrated etc. A whistle takes this out of the equasion. Works most of the time with all my dogs and even if I haven't used the whistle in ages they still come back if I use it.
We also tend to tell our dogs off when they eventually do come back and this just associates coming back with a telling off. Best to ignore them if they run off and then decide to come back after they have ignored you.
If all else fails 'run backwards in the opposite direction of your dog calling come in a silly voice with your arms spread outwards' (same as the aeroplane theory and yes you will look a twit but if it works then hey?? if you chase after a dog it will run away if you run away it will chase you that is of course unless like on of mine is focused on a rabbit in that case and then Ive got no chance lol

Thanks for the advice I will try the whistle, its true my voice probably does vary a lot when calling him. Running like a loony doesnt really work, literally nothing will take his attention from the other dog when they are playing. Also I never ever tell him off when he eventually comes back I always praise him and treat him.

The long line thing I know will work eventually... I just need to get the hang of it properly, which I'm hoping the trainer will help me with. The lead either gets tangled around his legs, Im afraid he will do some damage when he tries to sprint to another dog. Or else it gets tangled around another dog that has come to play and I get in trouble for having thelong lead dangling. When I stand on it it sometimes slips from under my feet. I'm just useless at the whole thing, I end up getting really peed off and coming home all wound up because of it. Hopefully this new guy will drill it into me so I can walk him nicely with the long line...

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Thanks for that! I will have a go while we are waiting for mr trainer to return from his holiday. I remember the premack principle from psychology at uni, I knew all the learning theories would come in handy one day!! xx

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Hehe, just had the most amusing walk today in the park. I dont think other dog owners were as impressed but i certainly found it funny.

Daisy's recall shocking as ever so when we get to the park i put on the training lead and we begin the 'lets try and snap the training lead by running so damn fast' proceedure that always occurs.

So *yank* *yank* *yank*, *whine* *whine*, *yank* *yank* *yank* *yank*, *bark*. Now ALL dogs in the park are coming over to see what the collosal fuss is, including one, poor lil jack russel...poor thing.

Daisy knows what "come" means but once she realises she's on the training lead and my hands arent cold enough to drop it with some good tugging she'll tranform 'come' into what was formerly known as 'sit', causing the lead to become slack. Daisy's attention is focused on this shepard / dalmation mix thingy approaching from the front and does not realise the tiny lil JR coming in from behind, as soon as the other dog is in striking distance of the leads length she lunges full strength, the lead tightens fast and sends this poor JR flying into the air ... dog was fine and infact it made him rather playful, owner found it amusing aswell so...phew.

When the lead gets tangled around Daisy's legs, before she decides to yank with all her strength again, just start to slowly pull it towards you. The aim is not to reel the dog in, but it will begin to lift the tied limbs. Not only does this mean that should she decide to bolt at something, she will not be able to gain enough speed to really yank those limbs out of place, it'll just make her / him roll over but usually, Daisy wiggles the leg out of the leash as she must find it a lil uncomfy.

This happened a few times with me, and once i did a little sideways summersault and landed on my ass in the middle of the park. But that was when i made a 30meter leed out of a seatbelt mechanism and about 5 seatbelts. It worked really well actually. If she walked slowly to the dog, then no problem but if she ran, the mechanism would lock up untill she relaxed.

ANYWAY, point being is that now im back with your standard 12m line. The one i bought didnt have a hand loop at the human end, make one. Then when u wana step on the lead, keep that in your hand, step on the lead. This means that instead of trying to put all your weight on a tiny, flat, thin, wet piece of lead that is undoubtedly gonna slip, for the lead to move, it needs to slice right through your foot....this is unlikely. Making sure that the lead forms a 90degree angle between your hand, your foot and the dog makes stopping atleast a 27kg lab in a fast, downhill sprint ALOT easier than standing on it and hoping

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Handle every stressful situation like a dog; If you cannot eat it or play with it, simply pee on it and walk away !

Thanks for tips, lmao at the above quote. Your posts are so entertaining I personally hope Daisy never learns to recall

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