YouTube - Cocker Spaniel Pup & Pittie Mix Pup playing at Avenue Barket

who is being apropos? who is clueless?
if this were YOUR dog-daycare, what would U do to re-teach better social skills?

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terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

* The pit-X is overwhelmed & the Cocker didn't listen to calming signals.
U can interrupt & get the pittie to relax with the Cocker before allowing off-leash interaction -
train together or walk side-by-side or a follow-me walk [A leads out, B leads back].

* U can play adult-dog & split the pups each time there is an inapropos interaction - help the Cocker grok
that when the pittie does that, back off, give some space... let the pit know humans will help.
this wasn't really 'play', it was 'testing boundaries'.

* U can react if EITHER pup says, 'take a break...', or 'gimme some SPACE..., wait a bit, then give them
a chance to play again - while monitoring closely.
both dogs/pups must feel comfy.

* Grisha Stewart's 3-second rule -
- the initial intro: 'say hello', 1..., 2..., 3..., call away, before they are excited or defensive.
People tend to stand & spectate, one pup/dog has enuf, & a snark erupts. Don't keep them there... hello,
& call them both away. Short and sweet.

* The pibble needs a stronger back off! for this Cocker, who gets wound-up, more pushy,
and the pibble gets whomped. they need more practice of their social skills, preferably with ADULT dogs.

* the Pibble may have had bad encounters with other dogs, & is hesitant to really tell the Cocker, BUG OFF!

* the pittie may be used to fluent dogs, & doesn't know the Cocker needs CAPITAL LETTERS & _s-l-o-w_s-i-g-n-s.

* The Cocker is just a pest, & enjoys provocation... It's a bad game, but fun!

* the pibble tried hard, sit, lay down, look away... but the Cocker didn't get it.

when out in public, what do U do?
- do U let other people walk up with leashed dogs & greet nose to nose? [i wouldn't]
- how do U get them to give U some distance without yelling obscenities or throwing rocks?
Kidding! /\_________ Sarcasm Alert ________/\
- i've been known to annouce the dog i am handling has mange - or lice.
- yelling, 'this dog is NOT dog-friendly...', often gets me, 'oh, my dog just LOVES other dogs...'
then i say YES, mine loves them RAW with BBQ sauce - sometimes that works - or not.
- 's/he only wants to PLAY...' i -hate- this one; i am the fun-police, when dammit i am just trying to avoid
bloodshed. ~sigh...~

* When dogs drag their humans to other dogs, or to meet a friendly person, & the handler allows this,
it rewards pulling & lunging. Plus, leashes! make intros dangerous.

* When the pibble 'quit talking' & tried to retreat, the Cocker pursued! not good - someone NEEDS to intervene;
the pup needs space, & someone has to provide it. Leashing the Cocker & leaving the pittie off would help...
the LESS-pushy pup [the pibble] could then control the interactions.

* body-blocking the Cocker is another option; block, if the pup tries to dodge & re-engage, STEP INTO the Cocker's
space - & if that fails, leash or long-line. This reassures a pup that we can & will back them up - nobody gets to
bully others, they are reliably interrupted, prevented or given a time-out.

* persistent rude dogs make other dogs anxious - which can result in a pup growing up to react to other dogs,
to move them away & feel safe

* running a fence-line & barking at one another is NOT 'play' - it's threats.
there are very specific, serious signals, often facial, to indicate an imminent bite-threat -
back-off or i'll bite, right now!
an offensive pucker is one; that's at the front of the mouth; a C-shaped pucker is another:
the commissure - AKA corner of the mouth - is a wide C, and the mouth is open at the front, often with lips
retracted & even gums everted. http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/BL_...ssom_Bene2.jpg

this is a very confident dog saying, back-off, Jack, or i WILL bite.

* if a pup or dog runs to their owner for help, they should HELP - not allow the pursuing dog to chase or grab;
step into them, give them a hard glance [Not a Stare!], clap sharply while gazing at the oncoming dog, etc.
don't punish the fleeing dog, & don't trap them by grabbing Ur dog's collar, it's a good way to be bitten.
just HALT the pursuing dog, CALL the dog's owner to leash them & take them away - support Ur dog.

* often the dog who snarks at a rude dog is labeled 'bad', while the rude dog with no boundaries is 'friendly'.
WRONG. self-defense from a really persistent or harassing playground bully is not fun, but the bully is the problem.

* Dogs who back-away, hide, duck, avoid, etc, need to be heeded.

* ENDING this encounter as soon as the pibble walked-away & the Cocker pursued would have been advisable;
TWO PUPS can easily teach each other bad lessons - a grown-up dog to play with each pup in turn is better.

* a quiet adult or senior dog who would be patient & wait for the pibble to get comfy & approach would be much better.
the Cocker climbing! on the other pup while the owner ignores the relentless pursuit is especially bad.

* the Cocker ignored displacement signals - 'drinking'... "i'm nervous", "go away, i'm busy"...

* with some guidance, the Cocker would slow-down & honor the pibble's signals.

* asking the softer dog to suck it up or get over Urself is not helpful.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Absolutely right Terry.

I always advise the few seconds rule, especially with rescue dogs at shelter etc if people really want to let their dogs meet. Dogs can gain so much info from a quick sniff and this keeps them social but also avoids any escalation.

The Cocker is like the little boy at school who has no friends and hounds everyone wanting to play- being obnoxious not because he's 'dominant', trying to be 'Alpha' or whatever else- but because he is socially inept!

Both dogs need a calm role model. Even another adult dog that can act play police themselves and will split the pups up when one becomes a little unruly.

I used to know a dog who was 'excellent' with other dogs, by all accounts. Now, he was quite a nervy thing, especially around people. Whenever he met other dogs on-lead he'd go straight for a rear sniff but then start obsessively licking the other dog's genitals! Male or female. I believe this was down to a bit of nervousness and avoiding meeting face-to-face. Quite a few times the dog was growled/air snapped at. He never reacted and usually backed off or looked back at me like to say "What the hell was that about?! Help!". Although he did have some very good social skills, especially off-lead, I always tried to explain that his nervous personality definitely showed up in dog-dog on-lead interactions too, so keep to the few second rule to avoid any conflict or annoyance on the lickee's part! In the end I think this built the dog's confidence a little and he got in a rhythm of meeting dogs on-lead for little moments and didn't feel like he had to feel uncomfortable, because the interaction would only be short and he'd soon be allowed off-lead, where he was a lot happier.

where does the pit-type ask for help from the human?

this is very specific - at what time on the counter does the Pittie say, "i need help, here...?"

Wow! My Collie would have got fierce with that spaniel at about 10 seconds in! I'm wondering why the Pittie mix wasn't giving warning growls, how anyone can see that "avoidance" behaviour after initial sniffy interest as playing just amazes me.

In the 50 seconds area there's a look & move towards the people, after the Spaniel follows to the water bowl, was that the "plea" signal you mean?

we'll wait for a few more entrants, Rob, if U don't mind?

At 23 seconds the Pit-mix backs off towards the person not holding the camera as soon as the Cocker backs off a bit too, but then does go to meet again (maybe hoping that the Cocker wasn't going to be as pushy this time!) and, as Rob said, there is a look at around 50 seconds when the Pit is around the water bowl. But in all honestly, I see most of the sequence as a plea for help. As soon as the dog begins to actively run away or sitting and looking away, it would be, at the very least, time to intervene, if not before.