Boulder Dog: 'pervasive shock-collar use'

leashedForLife · #1 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 02:46 AM

Lots of energy expended on Dog Whisperer, what about the pervasiveness of Shock Collar use? « Responsible Dog ~ It’s all about dogs

leashedForLife · #2 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 02:55 AM

watch the body-language -
YouTube - Sit Means Sit dog training aids the handicapped
trained with shock

trained with rewards -
YouTube - Dog Training: Teach Your Dog to Shut Doors Part 1 Clicker

YouTube - Part 2 of Train Your Dog to Shut Doors using Targeting & the Clicker

leashedForLife · #3 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 02:56 AM

YouTube - e-collar training - poor dog

this is an advertisement by this trainer; watch the dog's attitude, general demeanor & specific signals.
what do U see?

leashedForLife · #4 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:11 AM

YouTube - Advice for Curbing Aggressive Dogs
Melissa Bain, DVM, is a veterinary behaviorist at Univ of Calif, in Davis, California - AKA 'UC-Davis' in casual chat.

board-certification is an extra specialty tacked on after completing the vet-medicine curriculum -
vet-opthalmology, vet-cardiology, etc; there are 18 recognized vet-specialties accredited by a Board.
Recognized veterinary specialty organizations

Quote:

American College of Veterinary Behaviorists
Dr. Bonnie V. Beaver, Executive Director
Texas A&M University
Department of Small Animal Medicine & Surgery
4474 TAMU
College Station, TX 77843-4474
Phone: 979-845-2351
Fax: 979-845-6978
E-mail: mail@dacvb.org
Web site: ACVB

here is Dr Bain on the College of Vet-Behaviorists' diplomates list:

Quote:

Melissa Bain; DVM, DACVB, MS
University of California-School of Veterinary Medicine
Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
1 Shields Ave.
Davis CA, 95616
United States
office tel: 530.752.1393
vetbehavior@ucdavis.edu
William R. Pritchard Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
I accept media inquiries
Visit our Behavior Service Facebook page:
Clinical Animal Behavior Service - UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine | Facebook

which can be confirmed at -
Find a Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorist « ACVB

leashedForLife · #5 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:22 AM

Vicki Magnus is a trainer, & i have her permission to share her experience at a shock-collar seminar.
this was on Sat, May 8, 2004; as many other pos-R trainers have been, she was invited to observe.

Quote:

I attended a No Limitations e-collar seminar last Saturday, and wanted to share my observations,
hopefully try to share them without editorial comment so that people can draw their own conclusions.
I have tried to note where my expectations for the seminar and the actual seminar diverged; I have also
tried to describe my observations of the dogs without emotion.
To that end I decided to call what happens when the human hits the remote "button", as this is the word
Fred used in calling out to owners: "button, button, button". "Button" is what happens when one
pushes the button on the remote and sends power to the unit on the dog's neck.

Expectation Number One:
This would be a dog training seminar.
Actual Seminar:
Unadulterated conditioning, (classical and operant)

To avoid confusion here are definitions:

Dog training:
1) Teach the dog what it is you want
2) Give "it" (your expectation) a cue
3) Reward the dog when s/he is right
4) AFTER the dog has demonstrated he fully understands the
expectation and the cue, correct the dog when s/he is wrong

Conditioning:
Stimulus - Response (Stimulus A produces Response B)

Fred was clear on this, to quote: "the button means come, go, stay, sit, down, jump, off, up; the button
means everything". How the dog is to differentiate which command the button is calling for was not discussed.
Fred stated "he isn't into theory, the collar works because it works".

Expectation Number Two:
Finding the collars "working level" would involve carefully studying the dog's body language, looking for an
"ear flick" or other subtle sign the dog was aware of the button.
Actual Seminar:
No subtlety needed, the button intensity is such that the dogs have varying reactions, but only of degree
not of kind, the reaction is highly visible and usually vocal, as described below.

Expectation Number Three:
I had read, and heard, the dogs "didn't mind" the button and quickly adjusted to the "stim".
Actual Seminar:
The dogs ALL, every one, exhibited behaviors such as the following:

1) Trying to run, especially trying to run to their owners, hitting the end of the leash and struggling
to keep going, accompanied with yelping and other "vocalizations"
2) Jumping up on the person with the remote, ("button, button, button" got the dog down), more yelping
and hitting the end of the leash
3) Laying down, belly on the ground ("button, button, button" got them on their feet), more yelping
4) Sitting and offering a paw
5) Crying.

Fred did have a suggestion to deal with the continuous "vocalization", he suggested to the owners that they
place the contact point directly under the dogs throat as this would "help" with the "vocalization problem".

6) Jumping away from the "stim"
7) In one case I can not think of a single word to describe the sound a Rottweiler made except
to call it a scream (I left early, as I couldn't listen to this anymore)
8) Panting and drooling (it was a very cool day).
9) Making themselves small: low body posture, head low, ears and tail low
10) Exaggeratedly slow movements
11) The dogs stood, just dead still, staring at the person with the remote without blinking.
This outcome was held out as desirable: "look how good the dog is now".

A few more observations: How the trainers spoke about dogs to the owners surprised me,
"don't let the dog argue with you", "don't let the dog win", dogs were called "stupid", "retarded",
"knucklehead", the Rottweiler who screamed was called a "momma's boy".
These type of remarks were the only explanation for the any of the above dog behavior.

Owners were told to put the dogs over a jump, no questions about the dogs previous training or conditioning,
just send him over again and again, "till he clears it nicely".
It was a fixed jump, the kind you slide boards into, several of the dogs tried to climb it or just stopped at the boards
and turned to look at the person with the remote, "button, button, button" until they went over and the button
was to be used again while the dog was in the middle of jumping. The point of this was not discussed.

To sum up the seminar in one paragraph, Fred told the following story; (I assume he found it illustrative
of No Limitations training, certainly I found it gave me insight into the No-Limitations e-collar trainers
and their e-collar training method).
Fred was telling about a seminar where he was using a unit that has one remote for two collars.
He took one of the dogs out to "train" and was getting no response, so he turned the collar up higher & higher,
keeping his finger on the button, and after this had gone on for some time finally a participant at the seminar
told him his dog in the crate was going crazy.
Seems he had forgotten to switch the remote, and the dog in the crate was getting "fried".
With the exception of my husband and myself, THE PEOPLE THERE LAUGHED AT THIS STORY.

Fred went on to share his thought, it was "no big deal", he stated that when he came over and released the dog
who had been getting "fried" in the crate, "the dog just hopped right to it, worked like a dream".

Vicki Magnus
P.O. Box 2155
Waldorf, Maryland 20604
vickim@...
(301) 645-5063

leashedForLife · #6 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:26 AM

YouTube - Cleo Greeting At Door

2 below are board-&-train

YouTube - Magnum Board and Train | German Shepherd Dog.m4v

YouTube - BellaBoardTrainMobileFormat.m4v

leashedForLife · #7 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:30 AM

YouTube - #1 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up' behavior-session #1 of 6

Layla is an extremely-social, friendly Golden - who has hurt several adults pretty badly, since she does not 'only'
jump-up, she kinda tackles people - very hard-hitting dog!

this is part 1 of a 6-week video-log; there are actually 7 videos, since 2 were filmed on the same day.
she made terrific progress, despite her training coinciding with the fall/winter holidays in the USA,
& her owner suffered a wicked case of the flu for about 10-days, which meant No Homework that week.
but she didn't forget, & she did not backslide, & she was not allowed to practice her habit:
management is critical during B-Mod.

* no dog-toes were trodden on
* no human-knee bumped, pushed, hit, etc, her k9-chest
* no scolding, pushing, smacking [however gentle]
* no startling to make the dog jump back or freeze at a distance

for all the links in one place, see
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

leashedForLife · #8 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:32 AM

STUDY: physiological effects of shock-collars [sponsored by a manufacturer of same]
http://www.petsafe.net/outreach/white_paper.pdf

STUDY: possible link between electronic confinement/shock fence systems & aggressive behavior:
Can Aggression in Dogs Be Elicited Through the Use of Electronic Pet Containment Systems? - Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science

canuckjill · #9 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:33 AM

It took me until my second set of classes to actually Get clicker training. So Lily got more out of it than Neva did due to my learning, although when i had to have surgery and only had a short period of time to change Lily from jumping up for a hug to something else what I did learn with Neva paid off Thats when I got it. lol Lily was always allowed to jump on my thigh and get a hug, now I was having a melanoma removed on that thigh so in 2 weeks i had to train her, she still jumped up but never contacted my thigh or body she would jump up stop and target my hand. I gave it the hand command and she now loves that word you say hand and she nose butts it several times instead of jumping up. And believe me with 5 inches of muscle removed and lymph nodes you don't want a lovey lab loving you that way...

leashedForLife · #10 (**permalink**) 28-04-2011, 03:40 AM

notice that this horse has just been unloaded after trucking -
he is still dirty & dusty, she has not seen him in literally YEARS.

YouTube - Clicker Trained Horse Remembers after 7 years!
amazingly, he is offering behaviors before he is cued - he obviously recalls the training, & is not merely willing,
but eager to play along!

not everyone agrees with Shawna's techniques; she does not reward every click -
of course, there is much commentary below the video.
many folks feel a 1:1 ratio of clicks & treats is absolute & unvarying; the only exception is errors:
if U click in the WRONG place AKA for the wrong behavior, there is no treat.
since handler-error [clicking what we don't want] should be low, this should have no damaging effects.

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