pos-R B-Mod... for a dog who bites when handled, guards objects & food, attacks other dogs, bites strangers,
& is terrified of storms. [other than that, she's fine...]. Oh, yeah - and separation-anxiety, forgot that.

part 1: Difficult, Aggressive Dogs Need “Strong” Training. Really? « Boulder Dog in the shelter
part 2: Part 2: Difficult, Aggressive Dogs Need “Strong” Training. Really? « Boulder Dog still in the shelter
part 3: Positive Does NOT Mean Permissive « Boulder Dog going home

frequently, people insist dogs in general, or 'some' dogs, or 'some' breeds, NEED tough handling, or punishment,
or correction - this arises as a repeated theme; IMO it is entirely a false premise.

her behavior & emotional responses [biting, fear, reactivity, self-defense when handled, etc] were changed
with NO choke, prong, or shock collar, & without threats, intimidation or confrontation. It's not just a happy-ending,
it is good, effective, humane rehab / B-mod & teaching / training, IMO.
enjoy,
- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

In the "Positive Does NOT Mean Permissive" part 3 section, this stood out to me.

Exactly!

I found that when discussing Roxy (GSD) & her isssues with other dog owners how many would respond by saying that GSD's needed a 'stronger hand' & I recommended trainers/behaviourist who could deal with a 'dog like that'

Luckily I avoided those trainers & have found a fantastic behaviourist. Roxy needs consistent training (& lots of it!) but some of the methods I heard these trainers use (prong collars & alpha rolling) would have made her anxiety issues far worse .... & probably cause me to smack them one!

Alot of the symtoms listed in these links are very similar to those displayed by Roxy so are really useful to me.

That "strong hand" seems founded on fallacy to me.

The proposition generally goes, that some breeds or dogs are hard to train and need "firm leadership", based on experience with that breed in traditional training techniques.

Now, if a breed or dog is known not to respond well and be difficult with those techniques, surely that's an argument to use a different approach, not be yet more intense with the same trying to overcome "stubbornness".

One such type of dog, I have acquaintance with, is a Briard. Now she doesn't like bicycles, but one day we met and I had some small hot dog pieces in my pouch, not just dry. After asking Owner, I gave her one. The next day, we met again, and his dog approached me, despite the bicycle and me without any hot dog pieces.

This is a dog that is "difficult to train and stubborn"! We actually had a behaviour modification going on after 1 trial. Of course this is unfortunately lost on the owner, to use the food motivation the dog shows, as it doesn't fit with his mental model of how training a dog "should be". If the dog stepped out of line in some way, he has no problem yelling at it.

Having met Roxy only once, I can tell she needs a strong hand!

How ridiculous. My understanding of german shepherds, and one reason I could never have one because of my son, is that they are very easily unnerved, which in turns causes aggression. The idea that this breed needs a strong hand has probably contributed to the number of aggressive german shepherds, if you know what I mean. You keep doing what you are doing, she will be fine one day.

__________________
http://www.gentle-newfoundland-dogs.com
http://www.royston-pet-care.co.uk



Will always miss you, my little Joshie Woshie xx

If you want real love, buy a dog

If you wouldn't use it on a child, don't use it on a dog

http://pettaxisg8.yolasite.com/
http://www.help-for-learner-drivers.yolasite.com/

Thanks, was just saying in another thread how ell she did tonight with a clicker training session. She is starting to focus a bit more & wait her turn rather than steal the limelight as she usually does.

After reading so many horror stories on here of behaviourists or trainers I have been so lucky as the lady we see has been fantastic. As well as helping Roxy she has given me confidence in my ability (which took a big hit a while ago as I felt I was failing Roxy) which can only help both of us.

The thing is, the more time someone invested in a poor method, the more psychologically painful it is to risk having that shown.

Someone who spent years berating their dog, using positive-punishment to stamp out rough edges, would find it disastrous to see the dog learn quickly new commands by another method, showing it was actually intelligent and easily trainable. So heels get dug in with those "tough dogs".

Not rational, but human nature.

The guarding breeds are some of the most nervy dogs around. They are bred to be wary. They, more so than other breeds IMO, need a steady and compassionate hand, definitely not a strong, firm hand!

I had this exact conversation with someone a while back. No matter what I told him, about research and latest methods and how other animals have always been trained, he insisted that his type of dog had to be shown who the pack leader was! You will never change the minds of people with their heels dug in who think they have a special sort of dog who needs different sort of training.

__________________
http://www.gentle-newfoundland-dogs.com
http://www.royston-pet-care.co.uk



Will always miss you, my little Joshie Woshie xx

If you want real love, buy a dog

If you wouldn't use it on a child, don't use it on a dog

http://pettaxisg8.yolasite.com/
http://www.help-for-learner-drivers.yolasite.com/

reminds me of the convo i had some time back, with the forum-member who was so sure her Chihuahua
could not possibly learn the desired behavior the same way that other dogs did - after all, she was a Chi!
and Chis are, as we all know, special.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007