Can someone please explain this to me??? I'm finding it very difficult to find out how it applies in dog training. I do understand Skinners experiment where rats in a box with a loud noise which would cease when the rat pressed a lever, and that this is negative reinforcement.But how does this apply (if at all) in dog training? can anyone give me an example???

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Umm one example could be pinching a dogs ear until it does the required action
There is another example using recall that I cant remember what is done right now.
I don't think it has any practical use in modern dog training as I'm sure you agree which is why we dont see much on it
I will go and get my 'the culture clash' book in a moment and see if it has any examples in there.
I know the book has good explanations of + -punishment and -+ reinforcement but you seem to understand that just want examples
It took me ages to understand each of the 4 types but one day it clicked

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Negative reinforcement is the removal of a negative stimulus, so pain, shock, heat, bright light etc.
Most examples i've seen in books have been about choke chain training - so dog pulls or lags behind, trainer gives a tug on the lead/collar and the dog works to get close to the trainer to remove the correction.

Any time the dog/animal learns to stop a behaviour in order to earn relief from an aversive, that's negative reinforcement (R-).

Its so confusing in real life because it interplays with positive punishment (P+).

So for example (not a recommendation just illustrative) lets say someone is teaching recall with a shock collar So the behaviour that is to be punished (reduced) is not coming back/running away.
The first zap delivered when the dog doesn't come back is P+ to reduce the unwanted behaviour and the dog doesn't know how to avoid it yet.
Subsequent zaps are negative reinforcement as the dog is learning how to avoid the shock.
This is why most collars use a tone. The warning tone tells the dog that the shock is coming so as to give him the op to avoid it.
Avoiding is learned through negative reinoforcement.

Any time the dog gains relief from an aversive that is as a result of negative reinforcement.
The reactive dog that lunges, barks and snarls at the approaching stranger (dog or human) has learned this behaviour because they are 'rewarded' with relief from the contact or close proximity with the scary stranger through negative reinforcement.

You putting up your umbrella is negative reinforcement (avoid the rain), the kid cleaning his room to avoid him mum nagging is negative reinforcement and so on.

Using physical moulding in training basic positions (again an example only) also uses negative reinforcement.
E.g. pressure on the bum causes the dog to sit. The dog learns to sit (lower his back end) to avoid the pressure on his back end.

Anything you can teach with positive reinforcement you can pretty much use negative reinforcement to teach also.
Negative reinforcement gets over one of the downsides of using the punishment quadrants because it does teach an alternative behaviour. Punishment just stops behaviour but the reason the animal is carrying out the beahviour, in the case of R-, is so as to avoid an aversive

Where animals learn to 'turn on' nice things by carrying out a specific behaviour with R+; with R- the animal learns to 'turn off' nasty things by carrying out a specific behaviour.

Negative reinforcement of course applies to teaching in lots of ways that may be less than desireable. But negative reinforcement, like all of the operant consequences, are effective on behaviour outside of teaching situations so may shape behaviour whether you are ready with leash and treats and collars etc.

Hope that helps I love learning theory discussions so ask any questions if needed

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My very noise sensitive dog has taught himself to open the living room door because he hates certain noises on the TV (cheering, clapping, whistles) and this allows him to bolt from the room to escape the unpleasant noise. Has he learned this through negative reinforcement, then?


I feel a little light coming on!

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Yes, even though he has taught it to himself. He hates the noise and his way of escaping it is to open the door and get out of the room.

It is a barbaric way to train a dog, in my opinion.

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Sound aversives are also negative reinforcement. I've seen VS use some of these but am personally undecided to whether they are good for the dog. Obviously, it isn't hurting them like an ear pinch, but still...

Yes negative reinforcement can be used barbarically (sp?). It involves the use of aversives so is potentially very damaging.

BUT there are kind applications of this, the main ones being BAT (Behavioural Adjustment Training) and to a lesser extent CAT (Constructional Aggression Treatment). Although I was tempted when first released I don't really use CAT anymore but love the applications of BAT>
If carried out properly the dog is kept below threshold and learning is very very quick.

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"I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts." - John Steinbeck

"If you don't want your dog to bite you, don't be an a**hole to him." ~ Dr. Ian Dunbar

I think that was in her older programmes and she does not use that sort of thing any more, certainly not in her US series. I remember she had a dog who kept opening the fridge and helping himself when everyone was out and she put an alarm on it. I only saw this recently and thought it was a stupid idea, would make a dog afraid of any loud noise. I think nowadays she would be more inclined to put a child proof lock on it.

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Will always miss you, my little Joshie Woshie xx

If you want real love, buy a dog

If you wouldn't use it on a child, don't use it on a dog

http://pettaxisg8.yolasite.com/
http://www.help-for-learner-drivers.yolasite.com/

An aversive is an aversive is an aversive.

It doesn't matter that its not physical pain, the application of an aversive is associated with the same emotional/psychological fall out.

Aversives vary in the amount of damage done and that is largely down to the individuals sensitivity to degrees of aversive application.

In effect physical injury is generally much easier to treat than emotional/psychological trauma.

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"I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts." - John Steinbeck

"If you don't want your dog to bite you, don't be an a**hole to him." ~ Dr. Ian Dunbar