Basically I've a lab pup - 8 months old. He is good natured and very laid back. He's been going to general training classes since 3 months old. Has most of the basics down well - sit, stay, down etc etc - but my issues are the following:

He has no will to work / please us. He'd much rather do his own thing. Watching other labs on youtube (even young pups in training) they seem to have a strong will to work / please their owners - bum down tail wagging focus on the handler. Jack on the other hand is very laissez-faire about actually doing anything we ask.

For example - he is sleeping in his bed - it's approaching his bed time and I call him (in the house) to go to out for his last toilet break, he wont spring out of bed to see what I've got (he is always rewarded for coming when called) ... currently the only to get him out of his bed is to rattle the treat box. We always reward for doing as we ask - but calling him over no longer seems to be enough - he now needs to hear / see the reward before doing anything.

In the park - we've been using the tennis ball launcher for a while - which he loves. But again the tennis ball launcher is the important thing not us. If we can get his focus - by shouting / waving rewards around - then will do ask we ask until he gets bored then its off to do as he pleases again.

We use a lot of treating - and I almost wonder if this is the problem. Does he think "rewards are 10 a penny around here ... "?

I know the traditional way of gundog training doesn't use treats but alot more focused of drive (ie If you do as I say I'll let you go and retrieve) and punishments (ie if the dog doesnt sit when asked hold his scruff and push his bum down) - would an approach incorporating these methods make a more "responsive" dog?

While typing this its made me think a bit about how we reward. Alot of the time its "you did the right thing eventually ... so here you go" ... and also wonder if we are not making the connection between the correct responsive behaviour and the reward. Ie I ask him to stop at the side of the road - he does it on request number 3 and I fumble around in my pocket for a reward. Time elasped might be 10 seconds. Maybe its worth working on this more.

Also there is his age at 8 months he is right in the middle of his adolescence - will he become more responsive with age?

The trainer at the training club we take him advocates giving little attention to them around the house and only fussing etc when they are called over... it seems to make sense but difficult to execute in practice as the wife wants to cuddle / pet him.

Also when during training classes he is very focused and (if I say so myself) one of the best in the class. The other day we met someone who took their dog to the same classes and excelled - tho stopped last year - now her dog wont come when called (took them 2 hours to get him back) and they have purchased a spray collar to try and solve the problem (not sure how) ... I really dont want Jack to end up like that ....

I'd love to hear your points of view on improving responsiveness and how it changed as the dog matured.

Thanks.

Sorry for the long post.

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Jack - Black Labrador
Nalsy & Ponch - Purebred bedwarming moggies

First off, dogs don't naturally have a will to please people - wouldn't that be wonderful! Some types have been developed to be more people responsive and trainable, like labs.

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO traditional methods certainly don't make dogs more responsive for the right reasons and no they don't make them more willing to look to you for guidance and instruction. You become the source of yucky things and the dog appears more appeasing straight after - this is a normal response in all animals after the application of aversives, even an accidental stadning on their paw.

Your dog is an adolescent and there is a chasm of difference between puppy responsiveness and teenager responsiveness (or lack there of). Puppies think that the sun shines out of your a** so we think we have the most amazingly responsive dog and don't do much to reinforce this behaviour (in fact we actually teach puppies not to be responsive). Then adolescence hits and teenager learns that the big bad world is waaay more interesting, mainly because we haven't put in enough ground work.

A couple of things to do:

- get rid of food bowls
- dog gets ALL food from your hands for good behaviour or from food dispensing toys
- for two weeks dog gets nothing for free - he is to be asked for a behaviour in return for anything that he wants e.g. to go in or out doors, to have leash on, to get up on sofa, for tummy scratches, for the ball, to sniff the tree, to meet that dog, to greet that person...whatever he wants in that minute
- teach him to play tug properly - games are more effective rewards for teenagers than food
- don't put him in situations to practice 'not paying attention to you' - management devices such as long lines so he can't not recall etc.
- if he wants access to something, require eye contact first e.g. he wants to greet that dog 200m away, stop and wait for a flash of eyecontact (might take minutes), as soon as he glances at you, take a step forward and wait again --> he is learning that you are the key to the things he wants
- start a structured training program so that there are training exercises everyday systematically worked into daily goings on; here are some ideas for a month long daily training plan: TYD Month | Pet Central's Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

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Anne, owned by Rufus & Tripod

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That is the first thing I would stop as he gets older it will be the 4th, the 5th ect. If he doesn't do it the 1st time either help him into a sit or leave it for a few minutes and tell him again. When he does sit you need to treat immediately, no fumbling around. Timming is one of the most important things in training hence the effectivness of clickers

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