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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 26-12-2010, 10:59 AM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

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Originally Posted by Burrowzig View Post
Where's the aggression? Well in Leoti's house for a start! Just because it hasn't happened to you and with your breed doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.

The show ring is a completely different situation to living together.

Yes, in a lot of cases one of the bitches is spayed. Do you think the unspayed one (with the hormones) knows that?
I do know people with other breeds - and well aware the showring is different - but it's still a situation with a potential for dog on dog aggression.

My time in the kennels mirrors very much dogs in a home, but confined for most of the time in an area far smaller than they ever would be at home (crates were unheard of then) - and NEVER came across a fight of any breed with bitches - I did encounter a few with dogs though.

I know it is happening in Leoti's house, and I appreciate I've not given much constructive advice - but the way people write here and on other forums, it's almost as if you should expect this with bitches - when reality tells us very differently.

Some child siblings hate the sight of each other - this doesn't mean you are guaranteed to have problems with certain combinations of genders and ages -similarly - some dogs won't like each other, some bitches won't like each other and some dogs won't like the bitches they live with and visa versa.


=====================================

With regards to hormones and neutered households - I am aware that neutered dogs often smell like bitches in season - and that neutering one male dog has caused riots afterwards in a previously extremely harmonious household - but again between the dogs and bitches - not the bitches or dogs
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 26-12-2010, 12:29 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

I have a pack of 6 entire bitches 5 entire dogs and 1 castrated male. I like Swarthy have never had a problem. Granted 3 of my bitches are related my foundation bitch is the pack leader and the other dogs all know this. I have had 2 older bitches come to live in the pack and had no probelms introducing them to the dominant bitch. I have a minor squabble between grandaughter and grandmother once but the older bitch soon put the youngster in her place.

On the other hand I have had on a couple of occasions had fights between the males. It is most likely that they have picked up on a bitch that is coming into season. Their fights are always handbags at dawn all noise and not a lot else and they usually share a dish of food notlong after their squabble..

Whippets do tend to like living in packs and get on well with their own kind but 2 of my bitches are not whippets a greyhound and an irish setter and these 2 just join in the the rest of the pack although the greyhound can be a little aloof with the whippets.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 26-12-2010, 12:42 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

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Originally Posted by Freyja View Post
I have a pack of 6 entire bitches 5 entire dogs and 1 castrated male. I like Swarthy have never had a problem. Granted 3 of my bitches are related my foundation bitch is the pack leader and the other dogs all know this. I have had 2 older bitches come to live in the pack and had no probelms introducing them to the dominant bitch. I have a minor squabble between grandaughter and grandmother once but the older bitch soon put the youngster in her place.

On the other hand I have had on a couple of occasions had fights between the males. It is most likely that they have picked up on a bitch that is coming into season. Their fights are always handbags at dawn all noise and not a lot else and they usually share a dish of food notlong after their squabble..

Whippets do tend to like living in packs and get on well with their own kind but 2 of my bitches are not whippets a greyhound and an irish setter and these 2 just join in the the rest of the pack although the greyhound can be a little aloof with the whippets.
So you agree there can be a dominant bitch?
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Old 26-12-2010, 12:51 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

At the end of the day, I think the answer is yes it can be done a lot of us have done it succesfully, but if you have two same sexes or more that are not going to get on then it can be a big problem. Every dog is different, some are going to get on some are not. Some are going to co-exist happilly without competing. Wrong pairing and they are going to compete over everything, some cases it will be hormone based like seasons with bitches and with careful management during the time and/or spaying will settle and not re-occur. Same with Males a bitch in season can set them off but they can be ok the rest of the time and after. Dogs are dogs with built in instincts and drives, its not a child you can give a pep talk to and tell them its not nice behaviour and they shouldnt do it. A dog is what he is, we can modify behaviours and manage them and in a lot of cases sort any problems, but its a dog first and foremost.
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Old 26-12-2010, 04:13 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

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Originally Posted by Sled dog hotel View Post
At the end of the day, I think the answer is yes it can be done a lot of us have done it succesfully, but if you have two same sexes or more that are not going to get on then it can be a big problem. Every dog is different, some are going to get on some are not. Some are going to co-exist happilly without competing. Wrong pairing and they are going to compete over everything, some cases it will be hormone based like seasons with bitches and with careful management during the time and/or spaying will settle and not re-occur. Same with Males a bitch in season can set them off but they can be ok the rest of the time and after. Dogs are dogs with built in instincts and drives, its not a child you can give a pep talk to and tell them its not nice behaviour and they shouldnt do it. A dog is what he is, we can modify behaviours and manage them and in a lot of cases sort any problems, but its a dog first and foremost.
You can easily have dogs and bitches that don't get on as well - it's NOT a gender thing, it's an individual 'dog' thing - just in the same way some humans don't get on.

Likewise - as above - the majority of people I know of who have had disharmony within their house - at least one or more of their dogs has been neutered - so not really a hormone thing either OTOH - I can fully understand tension between males when there is a bitch in season around.
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Old 26-12-2010, 06:53 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

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So you agree there can be a dominant bitch?
Although I describe Tegan as a dominant bitch she isn't overly dominant more in a matriarch way. She is the old lady of the pack and the others have always respected this. I do not back her up as the dominant dog she the dogs get fed in whatever or I choose to feed them she doesn't necessarily go into the garden or for walks first. I take whoever I want first and greet who ever I want first but she is the one that the whole pack respect
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Old 26-12-2010, 10:14 PM
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Lightbulb bitch-wars and same-sex aggro [M to M or F to F] in dogs who are NOT housemates

all else being equal - opposite sex is always the safest bet.
Male-to-Male posturing, wrangles in parks, etc, are often more noise than physical assault with intent to maim.
bitches fight in the same-home for BREATHING rights - males may fight for BREEDING rights.

when estrus is over, the males May -not always, but often - return to their prior tolerance or sociable selves.
many bitches, after One Fight which causes minor injury, never lay down their weapons again.
they have long memories for a grudge -
dogs may forgive + forget, or have specific triggers -
food, a bone, pig's-ear, vying for attention, a toy, a coveted spot - these are relatively easy to control + avoid.

it's not that rare for bitches to have one quarrel, and it is impossible to share space again -
period.
i'm not the only trainer who has seen this; it's a well-known phenomenon, and can occur even among
Labs, Goldens, and other relatively low-aggro breeds.
it's quite common among Nordics, LGDs, guarding-breeds, terrierrrists, big-game dogs, etc.
it's relatively rare among companion breeds - Cav-KCS, Pekes, etc.

former-fighters are especially prone to this - BOSTON [Bull And] TERRIERRRISTS are toys *now*
but their origin is among the ex-'pit' breeds, and they're highly susceptible to bitch-wars, as are APBTs, Staffies,
AmStaffs, AmBulls and other bully-breeds.
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Old 26-12-2010, 10:32 PM
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Re: Fighting for dominance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrowzig View Post
Where's the aggression? Well in Leoti's house for a start! Just because it hasn't happened to you and with your breed doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.

The show ring is a completely different situation to living together.

Yes, in a lot of cases one of the bitches is spayed. Do you think the unspayed one (with the hormones) knows that?
This is so true

we went 18 months trying to sort out issues between 2 of our girls one spayed one not, we had the one not spayed, spayed and i wish we hadnt as her aggression towards the other female increased tenfold and like one of the other posters we sadly had to let molly go as she was the one starting the fights and even becoming intollorent towards the others in our gang.

The fights were horrendous with Ella being very badly hurt by molly in the last 2 fights, dogs seem to have a spat and its over, bitches when they get a notion they seem to want to fight to the bitter end. Molly is now so happy being an only dog with a super family. I should add that Ella and Molly were fine outside of our home and garden environment together.

I must add that i have 4 bitches ella whos spayed and the other 3 not and all get along famously, not one issue ever between them
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