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Old 21-08-2008, 11:41 AM
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Stand up !

Hello guys, im coming to the end of my 'make a post' marathon....

We have noticed recently that Daisy is unusually good at standing on her hind legs. She only uses this technique to try and eyeball the food bowl that we put on a cabinet while the water soaks in...a period of which she hates .

She used to try and claw up the cabinet but that was clearly not acceptable behaviour. Giving her a stern "NO" everytime she made contact with the cabinet soon sorted that out so now she has resorted to simply standing next to it, her paws never touch the cabinet yet she is able to stand up-right for ages, only time she ever comes back down is when we begin to laugh or make a noise, she then turns her head and looses balance.

We also have a baby gate on the kitchen as she has developed a nasty habit of sniffing the cheese while its still in the grill......sniffing 220c cheese will REALLY hurt so we thought we'd save on vets trips and her nose and just lock her out of the kitchen when we are cooking. Again, she doesnt like putting her paws on the cold slidy metal, weird i know but works for us. She does insist on standing up infront of it though. She'll then poke her nose forward to smell the cheese and this'll put her off balance but she sometimes manages to regain balance by spinning her front paws round in the air.....skills. Something we definately would like to attach to some kind of command.

We have taught her and "up" command which is used to jump into the boot of the car, run up the stairs to the front door (i live in 1st floor flat), get up from a 'down' position and to jump up to us (sometimes in the new forest she gets stuck when we treck through fields of brambles ect, and we need her to jump up so we can carry her across it.

Sadly, we do have an isssue with jumping up, it seems to be her common method of greeting and i thought that maybe training it to a command would help curb it as she still gets to jump when told but realises that only when told..... this has not worked one bit so we have abandoned all hope and just gone with not allowing any form of jumping on humans.

My question to you is, is there anyway of training her to stand without suggesting that we want her to jump or making the jumping issues worse. We have tried well timed rewards but its hard to get her to realise that what we want is infact the up she is doing but not a set of 5-10 quick jumps but 1 sustained stand where back legs stay on ground and front paws are not leant on me. I know she can do it, she knows she can do it, im just not suggesting the right idea to her.
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Old 21-08-2008, 05:26 PM
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Re: Stand up !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methical View Post
Hello guys, im coming to the end of my 'make a post' marathon....

We have noticed recently that Daisy is unusually good at standing on her hind legs. She only uses this technique to try and eyeball the food bowl that we put on a cabinet while the water soaks in...a period of which she hates .

She used to try and claw up the cabinet but that was clearly not acceptable behaviour. Giving her a stern "NO" everytime she made contact with the cabinet soon sorted that out so now she has resorted to simply standing next to it, her paws never touch the cabinet yet she is able to stand up-right for ages, only time she ever comes back down is when we begin to laugh or make a noise, she then turns her head and looses balance.

We also have a baby gate on the kitchen as she has developed a nasty habit of sniffing the cheese while its still in the grill......sniffing 220c cheese will REALLY hurt so we thought we'd save on vets trips and her nose and just lock her out of the kitchen when we are cooking. Again, she doesnt like putting her paws on the cold slidy metal, weird i know but works for us. She does insist on standing up infront of it though. She'll then poke her nose forward to smell the cheese and this'll put her off balance but she sometimes manages to regain balance by spinning her front paws round in the air.....skills. Something we definately would like to attach to some kind of command.

We have taught her and "up" command which is used to jump into the boot of the car, run up the stairs to the front door (i live in 1st floor flat), get up from a 'down' position and to jump up to us (sometimes in the new forest she gets stuck when we treck through fields of brambles ect, and we need her to jump up so we can carry her across it.

Sadly, we do have an isssue with jumping up, it seems to be her common method of greeting and i thought that maybe training it to a command would help curb it as she still gets to jump when told but realises that only when told..... this has not worked one bit so we have abandoned all hope and just gone with not allowing any form of jumping on humans.

My question to you is, is there anyway of training her to stand without suggesting that we want her to jump or making the jumping issues worse. We have tried well timed rewards but its hard to get her to realise that what we want is infact the up she is doing but not a set of 5-10 quick jumps but 1 sustained stand where back legs stay on ground and front paws are not leant on me. I know she can do it, she knows she can do it, im just not suggesting the right idea to her.
Erm... and why do you want to teach her to stand up on her back feet???

Only really useful if she's going to be in the movies!

If she ever needs to get over an obstacle, she'll figure it out herself.
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Old 21-08-2008, 06:21 PM
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Re: Stand up !

Carry on with the treats when she does it of her own accord but you could also try luring her with a tasty treat, to stand on her back legs too. shell get it eventually. However be careful not to over do it as she may hurt her legs or hips doing so.

good luck
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Old 22-08-2008, 08:25 AM
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Re: Stand up !

[quote = dogpositivetraining] Erm... and why do you want to teach her to stand up on her back feet??? [quote]

Just because i think its quite clever and apart from sit, stay, down, come here, heel, leave all of which she is getting a good grasp of now i am stuck for things to teach her.
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Old 22-08-2008, 05:49 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Stand up !

[QUOTE=Methical;247173][quote = dogpositivetraining] Erm... and why do you want to teach her to stand up on her back feet???
Quote:

Just because i think its quite clever and apart from sit, stay, down, come here, heel, leave all of which she is getting a good grasp of now i am stuck for things to teach her.
Ever thought about Frisbee?

It's fun, and will exercise Daisy both physically and mentally, plus keep her in great shape and build muscle.

You should check out this trainer/entertainer. He trains his Collies, but also does tricks. Should keep both you and Daisy busy

YouTube - zakgeorge21's Channel

And check out this specific video:
YouTube - Superstar

And there's more:
YouTube - Zak George Playlist.

Have fun!
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Old 24-08-2008, 11:16 AM
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Re: Stand up !

You need to choose a word that you can use - one that does not sound like any other word she might know. Perhaps 'dance' or 'tiptoe'? When she does it of her own accord say the word and give her a treat. She will eventually associate the word and movement together as a good thing, and doing it on request will quickly follow.
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Old 26-08-2008, 12:36 PM
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Re: Stand up !

Thank you for the advice guys. I thought it may tturn out to be as simple as waiting for her to do it and then reward with a keyword but she doesnt do it very often so its going to take a while to get her used to it.

Im no expert but i class Diasy as being quite thick for her breed. She grasped basic commands well, and FAST aswell. Sit and Leave that is. Down and Stay took a few days but as we have tried to move onto things like roll over, play dead, be shy, bow ect ect. She just doesnt get it atall. We tried placing her in the position and then giving her lots of fuss. We tried waiting for her to do it herself and then lots of fuss but it just doesnt seem to stick.

We tried upping the bounty and changing the standard training treats for cheese, ham, salami ect. Things that she has become a little obsessed with. Salami even has the power to get her to leave squirrels alone But as a rule, you will tell her a command she got right not 30seconds ago and she'll roll onto her back and demand belly rubs, then try 'down', then try a very rigid 'sit'. Then she'll bark once and then just resort to manic jumping and clawing trying to get the treat. I guess shes just a little too stupid to stick at it. Either that or too intelligent and realises that all this trick buissness is not worth the tiny bits of salami and cheese.
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Old 26-08-2008, 01:07 PM
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Re: Stand up !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methical View Post
Just because i think its quite clever and apart from sit, stay, down, come here, heel, leave all of which she is getting a good grasp of now i am stuck for things to teach her.
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Try this website Dog Tricks! Shake, Crawl, Beg, Kiss, Roll Over, Bow, and more! gives a few ideas on tricks and how to teach them.

I too have taught both my dogs to jump up on command. I found that this helped get them out of the annoying habit of jumping up at everyone that moves. They now know that they should only jump up on command as they get a treat this way, and only get a telling off for jumping up at visitors, strangers, children etc.

We also did the same with barking. We taught them to "speak" on command, which stopped them barking at other times.
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Old 26-08-2008, 08:12 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Stand up !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methical View Post
Thank you for the advice guys. I thought it may tturn out to be as simple as waiting for her to do it and then reward with a keyword but she doesnt do it very often so its going to take a while to get her used to it.

Im no expert but i class Diasy as being quite thick for her breed. She grasped basic commands well, and FAST aswell. Sit and Leave that is. Down and Stay took a few days but as we have tried to move onto things like roll over, play dead, be shy, bow ect ect. She just doesnt get it atall. We tried placing her in the position and then giving her lots of fuss. We tried waiting for her to do it herself and then lots of fuss but it just doesnt seem to stick.

We tried upping the bounty and changing the standard training treats for cheese, ham, salami ect. Things that she has become a little obsessed with. Salami even has the power to get her to leave squirrels alone But as a rule, you will tell her a command she got right not 30seconds ago and she'll roll onto her back and demand belly rubs, then try 'down', then try a very rigid 'sit'. Then she'll bark once and then just resort to manic jumping and clawing trying to get the treat. I guess shes just a little too stupid to stick at it. Either that or too intelligent and realises that all this trick buissness is not worth the tiny bits of salami and cheese.
Hi,

In general for teaching tricks, there are 3 ways of getting behaviours; luring, shaping, and capturing.

Luring is straightforward and is best used for simple behaviours. You've already done this for the basic commands, so you already know how this works.

Shaping is best used when there is more than one position to the behaviour. For example you want to teach Daisy to play dead. Well this involves 3 positions; sit, down, and then lay, all in quick succession. It won't work if you put Daisy in the final position and then treat, this is not how dog's mind work.

Well it's not how humans work either, when we learn to drive a car, we have a number of positions to put together, which end up being a single behaviour, but each position first needs to be shaped.

So taking the example of play dead you would first lure Daisy in to the sit, then in to the down, then in to the lay. (If you can omit one step and get Daisy in to the down position, then lay, even better).

Obviously you'll be using some tasty morsel to lure Daisy in to each position.

To begin with just lure her in to each position of the behaviour, but don't use your verbal cue just yet, and don't treat until she has completed the behaviour in a fairly smooth way.

When she is giving you the behaviour more or less as one movement, then start to use your verbal cue 'play dead', as she completes the behaviour, (not before), and use your voice to let her know she's got it right, plus of course a treat.

Then move on to using your verbal cue to get the behaviour.

As you progress, to really hone a trick, you would only give a treat and praise when it's done quickly. You want to make Daisy really work for her praise and treats. If these come too easy she just won't work as hard (in fact this applies to all training not just tricks).

Capturing is what you've already been doing when she stands up on her back feet. But she won't get this unless your timing with the treat and praise are spot on.

Hope this helps.

P.S. (From your posts I imagine Daisy to be smart, you just need to be patient)

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