Pulling on lead... - Page 3

JasperCarrot · #21 (**permalink**) 24-08-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundoggal

I dont like halti's.. any dog can walk by their owner with the right training

Whenever they pull stop and stand still.. and then wait till the dog walks back in your direction even an inch... and then walk on.. takes twice as long to go on a walk but works in the end

I have had labs all my life and never have i had to use a halti or harness... it just takes persistance

Gundoggal Does The Dog Have To Turn Around And Look At You And Then Move Towards You Or Can He Just Do Like A Backwards Step With His Foot ? ( Does That Make Sense ? )

Is This The Method You Use Also - Talk-Pets.com ?

I Have Tried So Much To Teach Jasper ( English Springer Spaniel , Age- 5 ) To Heel .. But He Loves Chasing Cats And Chickens .. He Walks Wonderfully Down Our Street But If We Go In The Car To Like The Beach or Somewhere .. You Have No Chance ( I Dont Walk Him Far Around My Street Because Of All The Street Dogs .. )

fun4fido · #22 (**permalink**) 24-08-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk-Pets.com

I dont yank any dog. That is not needed at all. And I´m also teaching both rescues, adult dogs, breeds not considered trainable by those who do not know better and most importantly handlers who thinks they can never teach their dog anything unless they spend a fortune on the proper equipment.

We train all breeds and have all breeds in from Chihuahua´s to Malamutes. From GSD to Labrador. Border Terriers and Daschounds, Poodles, mixed breeds and the rotties who shows up aged 4 - never trained, out of control and a handler that has no control whatsoever of whats going on. All dogs are welcome. All we ask is for the handler to be interested in learning. Then we´ll make sure that happens.

And we train everything from simple ob to agility to trials, championsships, hunts, rally...you name it - all done with no harness - and it works and is also quite simple

And there is no yanking or no pain involved whatsoever why the harness is unneeded and a tool produced only to make (more) mony on useless dog stuff. I have never heard of an arguement to what a harness can do that a collar and a lead cant. But I know a lot who promotes them - just not in my classes.

hey woah!

If you read my post you'll see that I never said you yank dogs or teach in this way.

My point is, many dogs perform perfectly well in class or in training lessons, but then some of this falls apart when not in class. You're not there when your clients take their dogs for walks to see what happens (well maybe sometimes, but not all the time). It's the same for me I'm not there.

Sometimes owners will inadvertently cause damage to their dogs neck/throat etc., and often they won't even realise this until later in the dogs life.

So I prefer to teach my clients to get their dogs to walk to heel with a front attachment harness. At least then if they should encounter any problems when out walking they can't inadvertently cause any harm.

Yes, I do train in ways that are different from the mainstream, so there is bound to be opposition. But the methods I use work too

So just to clarify I don't use a harness as a restraint, dogs are taught to walk to heel as they would wearing a collar, except they're wearing a harness. This is the only difference. I imagine like you do I use treats, and change direction as soon as a dog is ahead or behind. So we probably use the same method, it's just that the dog wear is different. But we both work towards the same goal, a dog that walks to heel.

Oh, and I never use Halti's or head collars, all these do is restrain a dog, they don't teach a dog anything.

Talk-Pets.com · #23 (**permalink**) 25-08-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogpositivetraining

hey woah!

If you read my post you'll see that I never said you yank dogs or teach in this way.

No but as you said:

Quote:

Unfortunately the 'yank and stomp' training method popularized by Barbara Woodhouse in the 1960's is still with us today (I'm not saying you do this). And it is now known that this can (and has) caused serious damage to many dogs

and using that as a reason to promote harnesses. We´ve come a long way since since Barbara Woodhouse and most of our clients doesnt even know who she is - instead they´ve watched others that - if I might add - can make the same amount of damage if not looking at the specific dog, specific handler and specific situation and adjust the methods after that.

Quote:

My point is, many dogs perform perfectly well in class or in training lessons, but then some of this falls apart when not in class. You're not there when your clients take their dogs for walks to see what happens (well maybe sometimes, but not all the time). It's the same for me I'm not there.

No I´m not and I am fully aware that some will drop it all on the floor the second they leave the training ground. We try to prevent that by having almost as much theory as practical training and with that, explain what excatly happens when they do that. Most can understand the consequenses and when aware reacts on it.

Also when in class, we are enough trainers to get out to each client for one on one chats and where we use them and their dogs to clarify what we try to teach and what the consequenses can be if instructions are not followed.

Quote:

Sometimes owners will inadvertently cause damage to their dogs neck/throat etc., and often they won't even realise this until later in the dogs life.

Just out of curiosity, how often does this happen in your experience? Because I´ve heard this argument from especially the sellers of the harnesses but never from any vets round here or owners of the dogs.

I dont think I train in ways that are different from the mainstream. I´d like to think that I´m using methods known for years that has proven to worked and yes, in some cases that involves treats. We do have some dogs that do not care about treats and we use other methods, for excample toys or other rewards.

Quote:

Also there are many cases with rescues where a dog has simply not been taught to walk to heel. Trying to teach a 24 month old rescue GSD to walk to heel with a collar+lead could invariably be risky for the dogs neck/spine/throat.

A GSD is prob one of the easiest dogs to train. We have a joke saying a GSD is born with an ob certificate up its ****

All meant in fun of course and with no dislike to this breed. It is a wonderful breed imo.

Tom J · #24 (**permalink**) 25-08-2008, 10:01 AM

haven't read the whole thread but changing direction when ben started pulling worked for me, mind you my mum's dog oscar just carries on pulling whatever you do but he is much older so is probably stuck in his ways

#25 (**permalink**) 25-08-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasperCarrot

Gundoggal Does The Dog Have To Turn Around And Look At You And Then Move Towards You Or Can He Just Do Like A Backwards Step With His Foot ? ( Does That Make Sense ? )

it makes sence.. he can just take a few steps backwards at first that is acceptable.. but each time he gets a little better you should espect him to do it a little better.. ie dont let him get away with stepping back once on week 3 of training if he did that on day 1 if that makes sence.. expect him to come back more

fun4fido · #26 (**permalink**) 27-08-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk-Pets.com

No but as you said:

and using that as a reason to promote harnesses. We´ve come a long way since since Barbara Woodhouse and most of our clients doesnt even know who she is - instead they´ve watched others that - if I might add - can make the same amount of damage if not looking at the specific dog, specific handler and specific situation and adjust the methods after that.

No I´m not and I am fully aware that some will drop it all on the floor the second they leave the training ground. We try to prevent that by having almost as much theory as practical training and with that, explain what excatly happens when they do that. Most can understand the consequenses and when aware reacts on it.

Also when in class, we are enough trainers to get out to each client for one on one chats and where we use them and their dogs to clarify what we try to teach and what the consequenses can be if instructions are not followed.

Just out of curiosity, how often does this happen in your experience? Because I´ve heard this argument from especially the sellers of the harnesses but never from any vets round here or owners of the dogs.

I dont think I train in ways that are different from the mainstream. I´d like to think that I´m using methods known for years that has proven to worked and yes, in some cases that involves treats. We do have some dogs that do not care about treats and we use other methods, for excample toys or other rewards.

A GSD is prob one of the easiest dogs to train. We have a joke saying a GSD is born with an ob certificate up its ****

All meant in fun of course and with no dislike to this breed. It is a wonderful breed imo.

Hi!

Actually it was one of my clients who first brought this issue to my attention. He rescued a 5 year old Dogo Argentino. This poor dog had been passed from one owner to another as he had become 'difficult'. Basically he had never been trained properly from the beginning as his first owners was inexperienced, and so it went on.

As you know these are big strong dogs, and this big guy had pulled and been pulled and yanked around so much, that eventually he suffered with intervertebral disc protrusion. Now his pain has to be managed and he can only walk in a harness for very short walks.

Granted, this is an extreme case, but following this my eyes were opened. I then read [this book] so that I could find out about early signs and symptoms of various neck/spine problems in dogs.

The book spurred me in to sending all my clients a questionnaire, and I was shocked to find out that about 30% had dogs with various neck/spine problems. (20% of which used a regular flat buckle collar).

So you see it has become a passion (and mission) for me to try and shed some light on this quite serious issue.

Oh btw I agree, GSD are one of the easiest dogs to train, but again this does depend on their history. I'm training one at present and (up until now) she's been running the show

So she's not finding it easy to give up her seat of power

Dahlia-mouse · #27 (**permalink**) 27-08-2008, 08:46 PM

Hi Chance !

I am really often with my aunts dog, i ''doggy-sit'' him and i am always trying to teach him to walk heel, i only go out with him 1-2 a week and his owners dont let him walk with heel so its really difficult for me.

But now, ALWAYS when i walk with him, i let him sit side to side with me, and when we walk out the door, i say to him ''Heel' and hold the leash side to my foot , when he doesnt walk heel, i say NO! , Now he almost always walks with heel

btw. He is Labrador and 1/4 Border Collie

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