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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 19-11-2009, 05:12 PM
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Re: Im looking at some foods

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Originally Posted by Lyceum View Post
Right, went to p@h today and got two bags of the turkey mince to try, I figure I'll swap the nature diet over to that now if it works out, then swap to Orijen once their currenty dry food rus out, so I'm not changing everything at once.

To be honest I'm a little nervous about it, think it's because you just hear so many warnings about the dangers of raw food that even though I'm giving it to dogs, not humans I'm still nervous.

I assume I just defrost as much as I need, then stair a few spoons full into their meals?
Yup, that's about the size of it. I must admit, in the nicest possible way, I found your post amusing. Don't take that the wrong way, it's just that from my point of view (having raw fed umpteen thousands of raw meals over the years to a lot of dogs) it's really very strange/amusing that someone could actually be SCARED to do it lol

But that's not your fault. Unfortunately society has been well conditioned by pet food manufacturers and even a lot of vets (who, coincidentally are 'educated' by those manufacturers and then receive hearty commission for selling their foods).

Look at it this way: Dogs have been with us for thousands if not more years. Commercial food has been with us barely 100 years. How on earth did dogs manage to make it this far before someone finally gave us the "only food" (commercial) suitable to keep them alive? It's smoke and mirrors, and it's a bloody good earner for them!

At the end of the day you're only feeding mince, not even whole raw meaty bones. Your dog has more chance of being electrocuted by lightning sent forth from the pope's fingertips than anything bad happening from eating turkey mince. Don't panic!
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 19-11-2009, 05:58 PM
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Re: Im looking at some foods

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Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post

It's important to remember that dogs are meat-eaters by design. They're meant to catch, kill and eat other animals as prey and in the wild this makes up the vast majority of their diet.
It's also worth remembering that whilst wild canids are meat-eaters by design, the domestic dog Canis familiaris has evolved some differences. It seems to have adapted to living near humans off their rubbish and later in domestication by developing a longer gut in proportion to its size than wolves. This enables it to properly digest other foods they would have gained access to by living alongside humans, such as left-over cooked cereals and cooked meats. They're omnivores, like humans.
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Old 19-11-2009, 06:03 PM
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Re: Im looking at some foods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
Yup, that's about the size of it. I must admit, in the nicest possible way, I found your post amusing. Don't take that the wrong way, it's just that from my point of view (having raw fed umpteen thousands of raw meals over the years to a lot of dogs) it's really very strange/amusing that someone could actually be SCARED to do it lol

But that's not your fault. Unfortunately society has been well conditioned by pet food manufacturers and even a lot of vets (who, coincidentally are 'educated' by those manufacturers and then receive hearty commission for selling their foods).

Look at it this way: Dogs have been with us for thousands if not more years. Commercial food has been with us barely 100 years. How on earth did dogs manage to make it this far before someone finally gave us the "only food" (commercial) suitable to keep them alive? It's smoke and mirrors, and it's a bloody good earner for them!

At the end of the day you're only feeding mince, not even whole raw meaty bones. Your dog has more chance of being electrocuted by lightning sent forth from the pope's fingertips than anything bad happening from eating turkey mince. Don't panic!
lol, no offence taken. What's perfectly normal to one person is often a little nerve inducing to another. And as we both basically said, you hear so much about what's best for dogs and combine that with the info drummed in about raw food I can understand myself being a little nervous. Still, I'll get over it lol.

Once again, thanks for all the help and advice, I'm sure my dogs, along with myself thank you for it.
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Old 19-11-2009, 06:12 PM
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Re: Im looking at some foods

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Originally Posted by Burrowzig View Post
It's also worth remembering that whilst wild canids are meat-eaters by design, the domestic dog Canis familiaris has evolved some differences. It seems to have adapted to living near humans off their rubbish and later in domestication by developing a longer gut in proportion to its size than wolves. This enables it to properly digest other foods they would have gained access to by living alongside humans, such as left-over cooked cereals and cooked meats. They're omnivores, like humans.
On what do you base those assertions? What differences are you talking about?

The literature is abundantly clear that dogs (Canis lupus familiaris, btw - The Smithsonian reclassified them and also labels them as carnivores just like their immediate relative the Grey Wolf) are identical to grey wolves with exception of only .2% of mDNA (mitochondrial DNA, not the 'big' DNA). Those minute variances account for coat, size and temperamental differences, nothing more.

Quote:
…an examination of seven dog breeds and 26 gray wolf populations show that the domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf.
In comparison, the coyote differs from the gray wolf by about 4% (mitochondrial DNA sequence), whereas the [domestic] dog and gray wolf have a difference of only two-tenths of one percent (.2%). Nor does the genetic evidence support the view that dogs descended from jackal ancestors.
Our dogs are gray wolves, despite their diversity in size and proportion.
Robert K. Wayne, "Molecular evolution of the family dog,"
Trends in Genetics, June 1993 (vol. 9, #6) pp. 218-224.


I have never seen any evidence that the domestic dog has a digestive system any different from its ancestors, unless you count assertions from pet food manufacturers which is hardly evidence. You may also find Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores? interesting, which cites further literature and discusses the matter in more depth.

EDIT: Just in case you didn't take the extra time to look around the Myths About Raw site, here are a couple more links directly related to this discussion:
Myths About Raw: Are dogs too far removed from wolves to be fed raw food?
Myths About Raw: Have dogs adapted to cooked diets?

Last edited by Rainmaker; 19-11-2009 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 19-11-2009, 06:16 PM
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Re: Im looking at some foods

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Originally Posted by Lyceum View Post
lol, no offence taken. What's perfectly normal to one person is often a little nerve inducing to another. And as we both basically said, you hear so much about what's best for dogs and combine that with the info drummed in about raw food I can understand myself being a little nervous. Still, I'll get over it lol.

Once again, thanks for all the help and advice, I'm sure my dogs, along with myself thank you for it.
Quite right. I too remember reading and hearing all the scare stories, wondering if I was doing the right thing, and hovering incredibly nervously over my dogs at the time in case they should suddenly turn blue and require emergency surgery!

Well done for taking the first step, do let us know how you get on. As always, you know where I am if you have any concerns or questions. ATB.
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