What food has the dog been on? Try a bit of fresh meat. If they've been on dry complete for a long time they may need time to get used to it. Try a bit of mince with some chappie or tinned pilchards/cod fillet.

One of my dogs is slowly getting used to bones... of all things!

They will enjoy natural food.

Thanks for your advice everyone, have been trying her on naturediet which she seems to really like, and seems to be OK for her tummy. She's still not touching her kibble but have sent off for some samples of different types so am going to try her with some different types to see if that helps, if not then maybe I'll give up on the dry food altogether

Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?
The Problem with Ethoxyquin
Raw Meaty Bones [junk food download nexus.pdf]

Giving up on dry food isn't a bad idea. But you don't have to switch to RMB for health. I feed meat with veg and mixer - and the dogs have been so much better.

i wouldnt worry about the dog not eating his food straight away. especially as its a cocker spaniel, a notoriously greedy dog, so really you are onto a winner. i am sure if you leave the JWB kibble down, the puppy would go to it when it was hungry and eat it without fuss.

however in regards to good quality wet foods, the few i can recommend include Natures Menu which comes in pouches or tins and has a 70% meat content which is excellent. Also Burns, JWB and Arden Grange all now have a wet variety of food. They are slightly more expensive, but these companies only really encourage small amounts to be used alongside with their dry foods, so the cost evens out over the days it is used.

as a pet food nutritionist, personally i never recommend chappie (as well as most other tinned dog food) as it doesnt really contain anything nutritious.

Ah... a NUTRITIONIST! and in Scotland... i used to live in Aberdeen.

My post was one of a number of queries on my mind...

I have a 10 yr greyhound Suzi [rehomed with me a year], and a 3/4 yr lurcher Zak [rehomed end Feb]. I'd be really grateful if you could comment on my points.

When i re-homed my Suzi i kept her on the complete feed that she'd been on in kennels, Supagreyhound (with the odd bit of chicken or tinned meat just to make it tasty) until i'd made up my mind about what to feed her on for the future. Zak came with a lot of tartar on his teeth... when he went to the vet eight teeth had to be removed. I had my suspicions about what he had been fed... complete feed?

My parents had dogs all their lives and over fifty years - two dachsunds and two terriers have fed raw meat and chopped veg with regular marrow bones. They never once (that i can recall) had to have teeth extracted or any suffered any significant build up of tartar. In between we had Guide Dog Lab pups and they were also fed the same. We've always had a dog medical check every year.

As i've read a diet is up to you and what suits the dogs. I have been thinking along the lines of a practical BARF. Following one person's recipe; couple of bones a week, plain meat [butcher's pet mince, chicken wing etc depending what's available], veg [greens, sprouts, turnip, carrots, bananas, pears] finely shredded in food processor mixed with olive oil, herbal conditioning mix, evening primrose oil. Veg made up in bags and kept in freezer. Similar to what my parents fed their dogs although more veg. Equal quantity of mixer added to the bowl at feeding time. I add some general vitamin tablets like 'Pet-Tabs' for good measure.

Quantities i've found people rather vague on when one is switching to BARF - this recipe seemed about right two parts meat : one veg-mix (this being an equal mix of chopped veg to mixer).
e.g. my greyhound weighs 50 lbs - 1 lb meat and 8oz veg-mix per day [two meals a day so 8oz meat 4 oz veg-mix
Total quantity guideline being 2-3% of dog weight per day.

Having now switched them over both seem so much more healthy that they were on dry complete. Their coats are much better, race around the garden, roll on their backs kicking their feet in the air - basically letting 'off steam' as happy healthy dogs. Stools firm and appropriately formed. Neither seem to drink the quantity of water that they used to and are much more affectionate and sociable. However, neither are that keen on bones, Suzi nibbles for 15 mins or so and Zak not interested (just sniffs).

a] So how do i get them gnawing? Seems just try a bit each day. [this was answered in the post]. I want to keep their teeth clean and healthy.

b] I've read the literature on complete feeds and i'm totally convinced that aside from obeisty and cancers that one hears/reads about - the preservatives (ethoxyquins) in dried complete feeds contribute through the build up of tartar to development of gum disease. HDA and HTA are the ones to look for in the ingredients i gather
The Problem with Ethoxyquin
As a nutritionist can you confirm this?

c] Cooked meat (tinned meat) contributes to tartar on dog's teeth a lot of folk i've met have said. Ethoxyquins are not present in tinned food as they are sealed immediately in manufacture. There will be some tartar build up on a dogs teeth over time... maybe one dental in their life. One pet shop said that one shouldn't feed tinned food as it's 80% water. Humans are 85% water and what we eat is similar. Makes me wonder what meat goes into complete feeds and how much is left after it is dried.

Chappie is the tinned meat that seems to be recommended most and conveniently available at most supermarkets. Not ideal compared with raw but when not available that is what i'd choose, with pedigree as second. Easily digestible for young and old dogs. Couple of makes i found had rather a lot of jelly. You mentioned it's not that nutritious - it just seemed a better bet to me than others. It contains all meat i understood when i phoned the makers.

d] Digestion rates. I have read that one shouldn't feed a complete feed with tinned meat - i just did it with a little to add a bit of taste. Regarding the longer digestion rate of complete feed - what on earth does this do to a dogs system? No one seems to comment on this - i recall reading somewhere that it takes up to eight/ten hours to go through. I notice with my greyhound that her urine is quite concentrated on complete feed compared with my sister's dog on RMB diet.

e] As far as statistics go! Of the dog owners in our village (and others i know) all seem to be overweight, unfit and thus unhealthy apart from two younger dogs (who haven't had enough of the complete feed beet pulp to suffer its mischief). i don't think kibble to do a dog much good.

f] Vets seem to recommend dry complete feed and yet fail to mention that a dental will be required every other year! Whether dried food is Burns, Pedigree, Science Plan, ProPlan - it must have ethoxyquin in to provide its annual shelf life. ProPlan have just invested £80m in their research a local pet shop tell me - i've got to have two large 15 kg bags sitting in my garage to "meet their dietary needs". If they've spent so much on research why can't they provide one food to meet all needs... i must be thick (although i've got two engineering degrees). I weighed the dogs a couple of days ago and noticed the vets had recently stocked a large amount of Chappie tins - apparently lots of owners had asked for it! Chappie is one tinned food that seems to suit many dogs young/old and sensitive stomachs.

g] Cost - wish people would do some proper sums. One feeds less meat and mixer compared with complete feed and no one seems to allow for the cost of the bi-annual dental. £50/15kg of Eukanuba... £40 odd James Wellbeloved. Fact is the dog will enjoy proper meat and be much healthier.

I don't trust what these 'experts' tell us. Be grateful if you could enlighten.

The drawback of preparation for raw feed i don't quite agree with. We always used a French vegetable chopper 'Hachoir' [sort of curved blade with handle either side] and sometimes a fine grater. Preparing just for each day at present. A food processor is the tool to have and Xmas is coming up fast! I've just been using a cook's knife this afternoon and with practice one starts to get quicker and more Jamie Oliver like!

thanks
james