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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:53 PM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

I feed mine on Gelert.My 3 dogs love it, and look well on it too.

Gelert Pet Nutrition for Dog Food , Puppy Food and General Pet Nutrition
  #202 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:56 PM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejazza View Post
what nutrition for a dog does beet pulp have.
Well it's never a good thing to have in large amounts but other than just being a filler/bulker for dry kibble it does provide fibre. Pedigree food must have too much of it though - it gave my girl a lot of gas when I was feeding it to her years before I knew any better.
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2009, 03:37 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejazza View Post
Well... yes but i wanted to know where pedigree actually got there's from. All you get on the phone is someone who has been brainwashed into what to say - they don't know what is actually in the food.

I've seen that advert for an e-book before. Why sell an e-book? Burns claim to have additive free canned food - why do they not say buy pure mince from a butcher [it'll be cheaper!].

From what i can work out one will not get any real truthful answer to the ingredients. Chappie always used to be one of the ones that Vets recommended but that has got a lot of stuff like maize. A lot of the dry complete food uses beet pulp - what nutrition for a dog does beet pulp have.

I would be grateful if the member can say what is in Pedigree... that is what i dare to give my two dogs when i can't get the butcher's mince.
Exactly, pedigree will never tell you, or us either when we asked them, what was or is in their foods, and that alone was enough to make me look elsewhere.

I spoke to several of my own customers who are dog trainers and dog therapy experts who told me that they always recommend Burns due to the difference in ingredients, and how their dogs behaviour and toilet habits changed when switched to Burns too.

When we got Spud, he was on Nutro puppy, and was pooping 6 times a day, and it was never consistent and rarely solid...

I also spoke with the owner of a local pet shop who only sells 3 brands of food (Burns and 2 others) and he was approached many times by Pedigree to stock their foods but when he got some detailed wholesaler info on them, and the wholesale price list, he knew straight away that he would never stock it.

Wholesale, a 15kg bag of Pedigree will cost less than £10 to him....
Whereas a bag of Burns for example cost's him almost 4 times that.

Spoke to Burns, and they are extremely forthcoming with their ingredients, how its made and WHY it is not sold in the big chains like Pets at home etc..

I thought that was fairly cool of them to actually answer a simple question so openly, and the last time I went to pets @ home, I asked why dont they stock Burns and was told that Burns wont supply them.

The main reason I avoided pedigree, and ALL those cheap skanky brands really is that I was advised, and have read extensively to avoid anything that says "derivatives" on the ingredients list as this is pretty much the waste products not fit for human consumption... hence its soooo cheap.

Even some of the other dog owners I meet at our local park, they feed their dogs on various things like pedigree, butchers etc etc, and knowing what I learned, when I ask them how much the food cost's, and I here "about £20 a month" to feed an alsation, I do feel sorry for the dogs, knowing what they must be getting for such low value...

Although, saying that, I've also stepped in the remains of it a few times too by accident and its like a cow pat... and stinks!!!

A lot of the cheap foods, as mentioned by others contain a lot of "fillers" and undigestable corns meaning you have to feed your dog more of it, which is something we were worried about when we switched to burns because on Nutro, our spuddy was eating about 400g a day at 12months old, and was putting on weight fairly quickly, and since switching to Burns, they recommend he should get 300g a day, although he has lost 1kg in 12 weeks, poop's half as much, and doesnt have the runs every day of the week now..(Although he is only 16 months old and still growing, but vet says his weight is still normal for his age, so he may have lost some "excess")

I did read about Hills science plan being recommended by vets too as they get good commissions for selling it, and our vets also sells it, so I asked them what was in it and why they recomend it and got that "ermmmmmmmm" look in response followed by the default reply of "its a healthy balanced diet blah blah blah"

So, I'm not trying to scare you or anything, I'm just offering up my own findings in researching, and speaking with those "in-the-know" as I didnt know anything at all about dog food, and while I'm still no closer to being an expert, but I do feel appreciative of those I know giving me the wealth of their knowledge and experience to help me keep spuddy healthy.

It really makes me want to scream at peope in the supermarket now when I see a bag of pedigree in with their shopping too... Its hard to resist sharing knowledge like that, especially considering 18 months ago, I would have also grabbed for the pedigree bags knowing no better...

Here's a quick example...

Check out the Pedigree denta stix...

Now, my wife is a qualified dental nurse, and I showed her those in our local co-op, she looked on the back, saw the sugar type and content and threw them back on the shelf..

Promote's healthy teeth and gums..... ?? with a high sugar content???

Seems I'm in the wrong job, I should start marketing ketchup as flavoured toothpaste for kids to help promote daily brushing...

hey, sorry for the ranting, I just stopped in before going to bed and, as feared like the wife said, this place is addictive, there are so many things wrong in the pet world, it gets me really wound up...

I go sleep it off now.. niteee
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Last edited by Daddydog; 05-01-2009 at 03:42 AM..
  #204 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2009, 08:34 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

You have to be careful not to over-generalise about pet food companies and the various products out there. Yes, many do use animal derivatives which some would choose to avoid, but there's a whole host of products now using the more acceptable meat meal (dried meat) such as Burns, Arden Grange, Pets at Home brand, Skinners, Pascoes, gelert, James Wellbeloved etc etc and who also use natural preservatives - in fact the big companies are switching to these as well.

Pets at Home have a good range of natural foods under their own brand and at a good price (I feed their Wainwrights Light recipe which is naturally preserved, does not use animal byproducts and costs £14 LESS than an equivalent 15kg bag of Burns which I used to feed. My dog is looking much better on it as well, as lots of dogs go too thin on Burns).

For info on ingredients used in the UK (rather than the scare stories of US companies check out www.pet-food-choice.co.uk/pet_food_ingredients.htm
  #205 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2009, 02:44 PM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejazza View Post
Well... yes but i wanted to know where pedigree actually got there's from. All you get on the phone is someone who has been brainwashed into what to say - they don't know what is actually in the food.

I've seen that advert for an e-book before. Why sell an e-book? Burns claim to have additive free canned food - why do they not say buy pure mince from a butcher [it'll be cheaper!].

From what i can work out one will not get any real truthful answer to the ingredients. Chappie always used to be one of the ones that Vets recommended but that has got a lot of stuff like maize. A lot of the dry complete food uses beet pulp - what nutrition for a dog does beet pulp have.

I would be grateful if the member can say what is in Pedigree... that is what i dare to give my two dogs when i can't get the butcher's mince.
Isn't Beet Pulp fibre? I think I read somewhere that beet pulp helps slow the rate of food through the gut to help digestion and to help the dog absorb the nutrients.

I am not a fan of Pedigree - I think giving a dog Pedigree off the supermarket shelf is like giving a child a macdonalds! Macdonalds or Salad? Pedigree or Super Premium Dry?

We all watch what we eat nowadays, why shouldn't we watch what our dogs eat too.
  #206 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:40 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

From what I gather beet pulp is just to filler to increase the volume of the food but from a nutritional point of view it's useless...
  #207 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

Eagle Pack in the US, who are a well respected supplier in the holistic end of the market say this about beet pulp, which seems pretty convincing as it's backed by clinical studies!


Today science is touting the benefits of fiber in human diets to prevent chronic disease. Fiber has similar benefits in pet food diets.

Pharmacological doses of fiber* (less than 5%), that contains both rapidly and moderately fermentable fiber is recommended in foods for healthy pets. Beet pulp fits that description better than any other fiber*. Quality fiber aids in the management of diabetes, colitis and constipation. It absorbs water or gives it up, as necessary, for good health, and correct amounts regulate healthy transit time in the colon. When used correctly in pet food formulas, beet pulp is an excellent fiber source, a partial Prebiotic and aids in the prevention of the diseases noted. Research suggests it may aid in fighting colon cancer, decreases pathogenic bacteria and aids gut health. It is a recommended fiber for pets suffering from gastrointestinal issues*, IBD, etc.

Beet Pulp gently massages intestinal walls to remove mucus on a daily basis. If beet pulp is not used, very often mucus builds up on the intestinal wall and inhibits nutrient absorption. About every 30-days so much has built up, it lets go and comes out in the form of mucus covered stools.

*“Small Animal Clinical Nutrition IV”
Source: Nutrient Metabolism
Fructooligosaccharides and Lactobacillus acidophilus Modify Gut Microbial Populations, Total Tract Nutrient Digestibilities and Fecal Protein Catabolite Concentrations in Healthy Adult Dogs¹

Kelly S. Swanson,* Chrstine M. Grieshop,† Elizabeth A. Flickinger,† Laura L. Bauer,* JoMay Chow,** Bryan W. Wolf,** Keith A. Garleb,** and George C. Fahey, Jr.*²
  #208 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2009, 04:24 PM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

When i mentioned about Pedigree foods i was referring to their tinned meats rather than complete feed.

I've read the literature on complete feeds and i'm totally convinced that aside from obeisty and cancers that one hears/reads about - the preservatives (ethoxyquins) in dried complete feeds contribute through the build up of tartar to development of gum disease. HDA and HTA are the ones to look for in the ingredients i gather
http://www.avianweb.com/ethoxyquin.htm

I've got a dog that i can't give bones to [just won't be interested!], the butcher's pet-mince is a bit fatty i feel and so for the moment i'm giving tinned Pedigree Original. Both dogs love it but i wanted to know about possible long term effects. since putting them on meat and mixer i have noticed such a difference in their toileting and general behaviour that i'll never give a dog any complete feed again. My greyhound was rather constipated and my younger lurcher seemed to have a bladder problem. Due i believe to the long digestion rate of complete food.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:00 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

If a pet owner is worried about ethoxyquin in pet foods then there are plenty of alternatives, in fact not many UK manufacturers continue to use ethoxyquin as an antioxidant these days.

Can't say I agree with the link to tartar build up, my guess is that this would be more down to poor quality food ingredients than an antioxidant.

Pedigree is a strange choice as a basic food if ingredients is an issue. Not sure what's in their basic tin, but their more upmarket pouches are not what you'd call great quality - typical ingredient list shows just 4% meat and 8% veg, animal derivatives, vegetable derivatives (probably including soya which is not that digestible, bakery waste products and not a lot else!

With Beef, Vegetables and Pasta Pouch: Meat and Animal Derivatives (Including Min. 4% Beef, Min. 4% Fresh Meat), Vegetables (Min. 4% Carrots, Min. 4% Peas), Bakery Products (Min. 4% Cooked Pasta), Cereals, Vegetable Protein Extracts, Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin, Oils And Fats, Minerals.
  #210 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: Dry Dog food whats the best out there ? ................

Just arranged for a rep to visit from Oscar, does anyone reccommend their dog food, he is on Hills Science at the moment but I had to pay over £40 for the last 15k sack I bought.
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