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Dog Health and Nutrition Discuss topics related to the health of our dogs and advice on how to help treat common health problems and issues including dog nutrition.

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Old 17-08-2008, 07:26 PM
AJ
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Exclamation Why Feed Raw?


Dogs have been fed kibbled foods for the past fifty or so years with what seems to be great results. Dogs are not dying outright from starvation or malnutrition, and seem to be happy and fairly healthy. You certainly can get dogs with glossy coats and healthy bodies (healthy being used loosely) that live well into their teens while being fed kibbled foods. Yet the veterinary community has been seeing increases in things like cancer, obesity, diabetes, unilateral hip dysplasia, dermatitises, food allergies, kidney problems, pancreas problems, and liver problems (and their medical techniques and methods have evolved tremendously to deal with these; many veterinarians are very capable people who mean well and can be quite good at treating illness and disease). Just about every system in the dog has been affected in some way, shape, or form by some disease or problem that did not 'exist' prior to the advent of kibbled foods or was not recognized as a big issue. Part of this increase is due to the fact that more people own dogs today and that illnesses are more quickly diagnosed nowadays, but many of these diseases have been shown to have strong links to diet—particularly in human research (like adult onset diabetes and obesity and cancer, for example). Many of our pets' body processes parallel our own, so who is to say that processed food will not affect them similarly?

But on the whole, most people are happy to feed their dogs kibbled food and coexist with smelly dog turds and stinky dog breath. Dogs are dogs; they are supposed to smell, right? Within the past 10-15 years or so it has finally been recognized that stinky breath is a problem for dogs because it underlies a bigger problem: periodontal disease. The pet industry has played off of this tremendously, bringing about an era of pet chews, dental bones, toothbrushes, toothpastes, plaque-scraping foods and chewies and toys, etc. More things to spend your money on because your dog needs them to be healthy, right? The problem of big smelly dog turds has everyone up in arms, as these turds pollute our parks, sidewalks, streets, and communities. It is the responsible owners who have to suffer, as the turd problem has resulted in stricter leash laws, dog ownership laws, and in some communities an outright 'dogs are not welcome' attitude, plus a plethora of 'quick fixes' to help manage the problem: pooper scoopers, waste digesters, special scooping baggies to carry with you on walks, extra enzymes to add to the dog's food so it will digest more of it. Has anyone ever questioned why they do not treat these problems at their source instead of just dealing with the symptoms as they surface?

Yes, people have questioned this as well as the whole idea of pet food; hence, raw feeding has been 'resurfacing', so to speak. People call it a 'fad' without realizing that raw feeding has been around a heck of a lot longer than kibbled foods: one million years of raw to only 100 years—at the most—of kibble. Pelleted, processed food is the fad that has somehow managed to integrate itself into every single aspect of our pets' lives: medical care, training, leisure, nutrition, showing, breeding, you name it. This is, by and large, the way people feed their pets. It is easy, convenient, relatively cheap, and provides a much-needed outlet for all the waste products we as a society create (yep, waste products. That is exactly what goes into kibble.). Some entrepreneurial person—James Spratt—got the idea of feeding "biscuits" to our dogs as a meal, and the very first dog kibble was born (click here to read more about it). These biscuits then evolved into foods that contained all the meats and by-products that were no longer fit for human consumption (particularly after the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act and the 1906 Meat Inspection Act, which created the "meat dichotomy" of 'fit for human consumption' and 'unfit for human consumption'. Something had to be done with all that 'unfit' meat...), and thus modern commercial foods were created. Kibbled pet food is simply a by-product of our industrial era that ushered in modernity and the desire to do things cheap, easy, and fast. It is no wonder that many of the big-name brands of dog food are made by companies that create a lot of other food products—Nestle, Mars, Colgate-Palmolive, etc. They have easy access to cheap ingredients made by their own factories.

But kibbled foods have come a long way since their early prototypes. They have improved much, and there are a number of smaller companies that produce holistic, organic, or premium kibbles from human grade ingredients that are of great quality as far as commercial foods go. The majority of pet owners are happy to just feed brand-name, pre-made foods to their pets because it is convenient, easy, and their animals eat the food and appear to do well on it. They are part of the consumer society that swallows slick advertisements hook, line, and sinker. And if there is one thing pet food companies have down, it is advertising. They advertise all over the place: on TV, on the web, in hundreds of magazines, in schools, at dog shows (think of the Eukanuba Tournament of Champions; free bags of the sponsor's kibble are given to the winners at many dog shows.), at zoos, on billboards, and (most importantly) in your veterinarian's office (think of all those shelves filled with Purina foods, Hill's Science Diet, etc.). Raw feeding, however, has no such advertising capabilities, because people are supporting their local butchers, ranchers, farmers, etc., and are encouraging sustainable living practices rather than paying big bucks to make people buy some commercially-produced product. Raw feeding's advertising is through word-of-mouth and through the healthy dogs and cats that are fed such a diet (although with the advent of commercial raw diets, this has changed a bit. This site, however, does not nor ever will advocate commercial raw diets.).



One can rightfully ask: why raw and not kibble? People are asking that every day, and some are coming to the realization that while their dogs may be doing well, they could be doing better. This is one of the reasons people switch their pets if their pets do not have some major health problem. They switch because they believe their dogs or cats can have better quality lives if they are fed a raw diet. Sure, the dog's coat may be shiny and it may have a fit body while eating kibble, but they believe raw feeding can make it better and healthier. Here are some of the benefits people have seen in their dogs when feeding a raw diet:
  • Clean, fresh breath
  • Clean, shiny, white teeth
  • More energy and/or more stable energy (no hyperactivity)
  • Softer, shinier coat
  • No doggy odor to their coat
  • Firmer, more muscled body that is not 'doughy' like their kibble-fed counterparts
  • Decreased itching and scratching
  • Better weight maintenance
  • Overall better health (evidenced by less trips to the vet and less money spent on vet bills)
  • Smaller, almost odorless poops that are quick to decompose
  • Stronger immune system
A kibble-fed dog, while exhibiting a soft, shiny coat and a seemingly healthy body will often still exhibit the following:
  • Dog breath (rancidity and stinkiness may vary)
  • Stained teeth, tartar covered teeth, or teeth encrusted with calculus
  • Periodontal disease (85% of kibble-fed dogs over the age of 3 have this)
  • Itchy skin Doggy odor to coat (varies in intensity)
  • Body is too flaccid and may feel soft or 'doughy' to the touch, despite dog maintaining the proper weight
  • Large poops relative to body size that do not decompose quickly (softness and stinkiness may vary)
  • Small fatty benign tumors that thrive from the constant supply of sugars provided by all the carbohydrates in the diet (Damjanov, I. 2000. Pathology for the Health-Related Professions. W.B. Saunders Company. pg 80)
  • Greasy feel to the coat (greasiness may vary), resulting in frequent (once a month or more) bathing
  • Premature aging caused by periodontal disease and immune system 'overload' (immune system is constantly working against the toxins pouring into the body from the mouth and is in a constant state of arousal; see Raw Meaty Bones for more detail.)
Most people consider all the above-mentioned problems normal (how did we get to the point where we consider all this normal? ). Since most people have never encountered raw fed dogs, they do not know what they are looking for and do not have anything to which they can compare their dogs. They may think their dog's breath and health is fine until they smell a raw-fed dog's breath and 'see' its health, just like many people think their dog is "well-trained" (it 'sits' and 'comes' when they ask...sometimes) until they come across a truly impeccably trained animal.
Raw feeding owners have woken up to the fact that their pets could have a better quality of life if they were fed a species appropriate raw diet that nature designed for them. They realized that there is a big difference between eating enough to survive and eating well. Kibble provided their pets with sufficient caloric intake and seemed to meet all their pets' nutritional requirements, but were their animals really living well and healthfully? They said 'no', and turned to a more natural way of feeding their animals.
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Old 17-08-2008, 07:29 PM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

well for me eating raw food means i don't need to cook it when i get hungry so its just there... i mean i only get food poisioning every now and again
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Old 17-08-2008, 07:33 PM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

interesting, did you see the arguement in the vetinary times about this? they managed to bring vegitarianism and tail docking in to it lol
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Old 17-08-2008, 08:13 PM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

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Originally Posted by minnie View Post
interesting, did you see the arguement in the vetinary times about this? they managed to bring vegitarianism and tail docking in to it lol
No, is it online?
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Old 17-08-2008, 08:31 PM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

Very interesting reading AJ thanks this is "food for thought". I currently feed Acana which is put out by the makers of Orijen and their plant is in my province Alberta as many ingredients as possible are locally sourced...
jill
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Old 18-08-2008, 09:13 AM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

Feeding raw also has it's problems, maybe not as many. Raw beef has to be frozen then thawed before feeding it to your dog. I can't remember what the freezing kills but it can kill dogs.

Many dogs are alergic to raw meat, a friend's dog was fed raw from when he was still with his mother, never been fed anything else but he developed an alergy to raw meat and had to move over to kibble. I have a dog that is alergic to raw meat as well.

Ideally I prefer to home cook my dog food but with 6 dogs to feed it is impossible, mainly because my health isn't as good as it should be and I would be doing more harm by feeding homecooked then kibble when I couldn't cook.

The best thing is to research all dog foods, raw, homecooked, tinned, kibble etc and go for what you are happy with. There is a lot of bad dog food out these, but if you do your research you will get what is best for your dog.
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Old 18-08-2008, 10:37 AM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

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Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Feeding raw also has it's problems, maybe not as many. Raw beef has to be frozen then thawed before feeding it to your dog. I can't remember what the freezing kills but it can kill dogs.

Many dogs are alergic to raw meat, a friend's dog was fed raw from when he was still with his mother, never been fed anything else but he developed an alergy to raw meat and had to move over to kibble. I have a dog that is alergic to raw meat as well.

Ideally I prefer to home cook my dog food but with 6 dogs to feed it is impossible, mainly because my health isn't as good as it should be and I would be doing more harm by feeding homecooked then kibble when I couldn't cook.

The best thing is to research all dog foods, raw, homecooked, tinned, kibble etc and go for what you are happy with. There is a lot of bad dog food out these, but if you do your research you will get what is best for your dog.

Hi i remeber that Beef bones had to be frozen before being fed but couldnt remeber why.
I have looked into it quick and found that the cow can carry a disease that can make a dog infertile,and freezing kills it.

I also remember reading that Pork bones should be frozen for at least 3 weeks,but again cant find the article again...

Always ensure the bones are completly defrosted before fed too.

Will have a look later see if i can find the info i read,but it may be out of date now as there is so much more coming to light that is different to what was said before confusing

Mel
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Old 18-08-2008, 10:58 AM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?


Is there any validity to them? Since this is an honest and candid look at raw feeding, I will be frank: yes, these claims may have some validity to them, but the 'problems' with raw feeding are not the problems of epidemic, drastic proportions that they are made out to be. There are risks to feeding raw, just as there are risks to feeding kibble. No one seems to mention the risks of feeding kibble, perhaps because pet food companies have been very good at making people believe kibbled food is a risk-free diet for their pets. Here are some of the risks of feeding raw:

Choking.
Yes, choking can happen with raw meaty bones. The primary culprit is a raw meaty bone that is too small for the dog (such as single chicken wings or necks). To prevent this from occurring, feed big raw meaty bones. Additionally, dogs that have been eating commercial food must learn how to chew. They do not chew their kibble but typically "inhale" and gulp the food down; they try to do this with their first raw meaty bone and quickly learn that they need to CHEW their food. So choking can and does occasionally happen. However, think of all the other things that dogs choke on: kibble, pieces of rawhide, rocks, sticks, water, raquet balls, tennis balls, broken-off pieces of synthetic chew bones, pieces of toys. People tell you your dog will choke to death on raw bones, but they conveniently neglect to mention all the other things dogs choke on, including kibble (ever hear your pet scarf its food and then suddenly give a nice big 'HORK'? Your pet just choked. Good thing they managed to cough it up; other dogs have not been so lucky.). Heck, dogs will choke on their own spit!! I know mine has. The truth of it is that any object the dog places into its mouth presents a choking hazard. I personally have heard of more dogs choking on and then dying from tennis balls than I have heard of raw-fed animals choking on their raw meaty bones (let alone dying from them!).

Intestinal Perforation and Obstruction.
Yes, I suppose these could happen and have happened to dogs. However, as one JAVMA article put it: "the actual incidence of complications resulting from the ingestion of raw bones is unknown" (Freeman, L.M. and K.E. Michel. Evaluation of raw food diets for dogs. JAVMA. 218(5): 705-709). People are claiming that this happens all the time without ever providing evidence for these claims.

Bacterial septicemia.
Yes, this could possibly happen, but it is rather rare (even in kibble-fed dogs) and usually occurs only in unwell animals that are incapable of dealing with a population of bacteria (which, coincidentally, is all throughout their intestines anyway): immune compromised pets, sick pets, animals that have an underlying health issue. As with all other anti-raw claims, you cannot take this one at face value. You need to probe and question. What, exactly, was the animal being fed? Were there any other complicating factors? Was the bacteria septicemia secondary to some other health problem or following recent vaccination (which can depress the immune system by 80% for as long as 10 days post-vaccination)? Can they conclusively determine that the dog got 'sick' from its food (remember, bacteria are absolutely everywhere, and dogs often have a habit of eating anything and everything)? The unfortunate truth of it is that many vets and pet owners will simply blame the diet than work to find the real cause. An example of this is on the Rawfed.com homepage: the article of the two cats that supposedly died from salmonella. If you want a more in-depth discussion of bacteria, see the Bacteria myth. Additionally, if a raw-fed dog (or any dog) is afflicted with bacterial septicemia, one must ask "Why? Why this dog? Why now?" Not EVERY dog (raw-fed or otherwise) is afflicted with bacterial septicemia, so there must be something going on that made this dog susceptible to an overgrowth of bacteria.

Parasites.
Yes, this can happen, but if you are getting your meat from a human-approved source, this is not an issue (despite people trying to blow it out of proportion and make you think it is). Just think about the kind of meat that goes into kibble (dead, dying, diseased, or disabled) and you will be much happier knowing your dog is getting real human-grade meat in its fresh form. Yes, there will always be a minimal risk that your dog can contract some parasite from meat, but most parasites are not life-threatening and can be dealt with easily (did I mention there was a minimal risk?). Contrast this to the toxic molds that caused thousands of bags of dog food to be pulled off the shelves once dogs starting getting sick and dying. For more information on the parasite half-truth, see the Parasite myth.

This is what it comes down to: everything has a risk associated with it. That is the way life is. Regardless of what you feed your pets, there will ALWAYS be some sort of risk. These are the main risks of feeding a raw diet, but they are minimal risks, and people who feed raw truly feel that the benefits outweigh any possible risks. Claims of 'hundreds of dogs' suffering from punctured intestines or 'a high percentage of dogs' dying from pancreatitis induced by the "high fat content" in meat are unfounded scare tactics and undocumented generalizations. Kibble has risks, as well. Even feeding your dog a premium kibble still puts it at risk for choking, bloat, cancer, diabetes, obesity, telescoping bowel, anal sac problems, joint problems, and periodontal disease (which allows bacteria and bacterial toxins to enter your pet's body and affect every single organ). Home-cooked diets also have their own set of risks: unbalanced nutrition (since cooking alters and destroys many of the necessary nutrients) resulting in a myriad of health problems (some of which are fatal or irreversible), small intestine bacterial overgrowth, and periodontal disease, for example. Everything has risks whether we acknowledge them or not.
No one is going to force you to make a decision. This is your choice and no one else's. Choosing to feed raw will put you in conflict with the majority of vets and pet owners, and you will undoubtedly be attacked for your choice by both ignorant (yet well-meaning) people and by educated people. Be informed, be educated, and be prepared. The fact that you came to Rawfed.com already speaks volumes about you: you have an open mind and are willing to read and think critically, something most vehement anti-raw people do not share with you. Personally, I cannot help but wonder why raw feeding provokes such a visceral reaction from people and why we have come to believe that dogs are supposed to eat pre-formed pellets and nothing else. 'Dogs do not need variety.' 'Do not feed your dog people food or it will become finicky and will not eat its dog food.' I wonder why!! Real food versus processed pellets sprayed with fat? No wonder dogs prefer 'people food'.

As you leave this page, I hope that you will give some serious thought to the material presented here. Remember that really learning something makes one uncomfortable because one realizes they are deficient in some way; no one enjoys coming to that realization, especially when they must present or project a particular, well-learned image to others. I encourage you to work through the discomfort and to not just dismiss everything you have read here simply because it does not fall in line with what you personally believe or practice. Be critical in your thought and analysis of EVERYTHING, not just the myth arguments. When you see pet food advertisements, question the reality they are presenting to you. What things are being left out and unspoken? Everything that is presented to you via the media has been altered in some way to represent a new reality—the reality certain parties want you, the consumer, to hear—so what other realities are being neglected and ignored? Raw feeders are giving voice to some of these neglected realities. When vets encourage and sell commercial foods, ask them why. Why and how is a processed food better for our pets than fresh whole foods? You are very capable of providing your pet with the best quality of life that you can give it; it is up to you to decide to what lengths you will go to achieve that. Happy trails to you, and may you walk a blessed path.

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Old 18-08-2008, 11:09 AM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

AJ, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the author on the site you are quoting/linking to? Or links to sources of any articles and their authors etc?

I feed raw,and fully advocate it, but I personaly believe it is something that needs much research ad shouldn't be undertaken lightly.

I also feel the risk from bones is greater than some would have us believe, not on the way in, but the way out. That shouldn't be a problem providing the owner is vigilant and sensible, (for example, when you first start feeding rw, bones such as chicken are easier to digest that pork) but I do think it is unwise to 'play down' any risk or pretend it is virtually negligable.
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Old 18-08-2008, 11:44 AM
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Re: Why Feed Raw?

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AJ, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the author on the site you are quoting/linking to? Or links to sources of any articles and their authors etc?
"Unless otherwise stated, all pages have been written by and are the property of Carissa Kuehn."
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