Vegchowfun,

Your dog's tumor sounds very much like my dog's was last February. I have to say that over all my story is a success story (I say this because he was given only a couple of months to live and he is here 9 months later still) however it is not a success in the sense of a cure. He cannot be cured and unfortunately he is slowing losing his battle with the cancer.

I will tell you what I would do differently and hopefully it will help you get a cure for your dog. I would have moved much more aggressively on it. If surgery is an option and you have a vet that wants to be aggressive with the surgery, do it. We got "clean margins" but even still it came back so apparently there was still microscopic disease. Another thing I would have done is have them inject a local chemo gel at the borders after the tumor removal (carboplatin or cisplatin) while they had him open for surgery. Even if surgery was not an option I would have had the tumor injected with the chemo gel. I ended up doing IV chemo which was not too terrible on him, but unfortunately this kind of cancer is not very responsive to IV chemo since the cancer eats into the bone and there are not many blood vessels in the bone to carry the chemo to all tumor cells. This is why I recommend the local chemo that they can really get it into the bone and make sure it gets in there. Even if your dog's tumor is not in the bone yet, it most likely is there microscopically. I think the best thing is to hit it hard with everything you can at once. If you do this, perhaps you will get a cure.

We also did radiation but again, it does not have a high success rate with this kind of cancer. I would not have done the radiation looking back unless I did it right after the surgery, I waited too long in between and it was not successful. But I will tell you that if you want to consider radiation there are ways to do it that will not cause the terrible burns on the skin. My dog did not get the burns. If they get around 10 grays a week and not much more it greatly reduces their risk. Another radiation option is if you do palliative radiation. I have another dog with cancer who got that and it was cheaper, easier on my dog, required far less trips to get the treatments. If you do end up getting radiation for your dog, make sure he is on strong pain meds because they do get an internal burn that hurts and they need to be on pain meds.

If I could go back in time I would have done aggressive surgery, local chemo gel, prioxicam all at the same time. Then soon as the surgery healed I would have followed up with radiation as soon as possible. I waited too long to follow up with radiation and it is much more successful on microscopic disease than it is after the tumor has grown again. Also the chemo and radiation at the same time boost each other in the ability to get rid of the cancer.

If you have any questions I would be very willing to help you in any way I can. This has been a very long hard year for me and my baby but I have learned so much and I hope that I can help someone else possibly get a cure for their dog's Squamous Cell Carcinoma. This is not an easy cancer to treat so if you are going to go for it, my best advice is to jump all in and don't under estimate it. It is good to have positive thoughts, but don't let it get your guard down because unfortunately the horror stories are more the rule than the exception.

This piece of advice applies for much further down the road and in the event you are not successful in curing your dog of the cancer but if it comes to that you can still extend their life with pain management. Unfortunately this sort of cancer is especially painful. The pain meds alone just don't cut it. My dog's vet is great and thinks outside the box and recommended something she knew was used in horses but not in dogs. My dog's pain had gotten so bad that I thought I was going to have to let him go until she suggested this treatment. I said let's do it and it was a great decision. It gave me my dog back and it gave him his life back. He is still not cured and still on borrowed time, but he is not suffering. This will be important for you to remember in case you get to this point because it is not typical and it may not be recommended just because it might be over looked. Anyway the treatment is a local permanent nerve block that she did for him and it bought him more time.

Best of luck to you and your dog. It has been a tough road and the decisions will be hard, but if you do your research and keep gathering information you will make the best decisions possible for your dog. You both will be in my thoughts.

Jackie

Jackie, can I ask, if you HAD done all this aggressive intervention, what would the quality of life have been like for your dog, would it have ben suffering during all of this? reason I am asking is sometimes its hard to let go because we love them so much, but if holding on to them is causing pain, is it right? I am not being judgemental here, I just wanted to know is the cancer/treatment very painful or is the cancer something that attacks but causes no real discomfort? just trying to understand about the condition.

Mo

One of my biggest concerns with treatment was whether it would be hard on him or not. I almost decided not to get him treated at all because they told me that there was a good chance they would have to remove an eye. I thought oh God this is just terrible and I can't do that to him. I had planned on not doing any treatments and when took him in to get his stitches removed from his biopsy there was a dog in waiting room without an eye. This dog looked perfectly happy and acted just like a normal dog. I went over to the owner and asked why she did not have an eye. Turns out she had Squamous Cell Carcinoma, 5 years earlier. She was healthy, happy, and cancer free. She did not care that she only had one eye. That is when I decided that if a dog feels good and wants to live then you should still investigate treatments and decide if they are right for your dog, but just because it sounds bad to us does not mean it is going to be hard on the dog.

I did do all the things I mentioned to you to try to cure my dog and more. The only difference is the timing at which I did them. So when I say aggressive, I mean to not waste time and to not think that it is just going to go away. I wish I had hit it all at once, as close together as possible, and perhaps that would have worked. The treatments have not been hard on him at all, I worked closely with a wonderful Oncologist to make sure that anything we did would not hurt his quality of life. That is why we kept the radiation about 10.5 grays per week, to eliminate the terrible side effects. That is not the standard procedure but used to be in the past and in her 26 years of experience she has not seen that increasing the dosage per week had any more success of treating the cancer. So I would not have changed the dosage, I still would have gone the route that would not produce the terrible burns, BUT I would have done it soon as he was ready after his surgery. I waited about 2 months after the surgery but could have done it as soon as 2-3 weeks. I should have done it sooner.

The surgery was not hard on him either. He was playing just two days after his surgery. In fact to my surprise, I had not realized how much the cancer was hurting him until he had it removed. The treatments generally make the dog feel better because they get rid of the cancer.

IV or oral Chemo can be very hard on some dogs, but for the most part it is a very different thing for dogs than it is for humans. It is much easier on dogs than with humans, I believe they give dogs much lower doses than humans (when trying to extend a human life you are dealing with a much larger span of time vs. the short life of a dog) so less chemo is needed. Some dogs do have a very hard time with chemo though, they get nausea and diarrhea. There is anti nausea pills and anti diarrhea pills that definitely help. You can also switch chemos or stop chemo at any time if you see that it is hard on your dog. Even given all this info on detail, unless the Squamous Cell Carcinoma had metastasized or had been found to be in the process of metastasizing (found in the blood vessels) I would not do IV or Oral Chemo.

And then you have the local injection of chemo. This is what I did not do that I would have done. I did not do this because when they did surgery they recommended these local chemo beads. They problem with that is that although they release chemo locally and do not cause any side effects, that was all good, BUT it did not penetrate the microscopic disease in the bone. I wish I had known about the chemo gel at that point and I would have had them inject it all around the site of where the tumor was removed while he was in surgery. The chemo gel also does not have side effects because it is local, it is not being pumped through their veins and every organ.

Every dog is different and every situation is different. But if you have decided to treat your dog and try to cure him, just don't underestimate this aggressive cancer. Talk with your vet about your concerns to maintain the quality of your dog's life and then check and double check with people who have had the treatments you think you might want to do. This is the best way of being sure you are picking out how to try to cure your dog. There are so many options out there. But when you decide on a treatment plan, try to do it as close together as possible. The more you throw it at once, the better chance you have for a cure.

I personally think the most effective way and least harmful way would be to do the surgery, inject the chemo gel during surgery, soon as he healed from the surgery do the radiation (no more than 10.5 grays per week), and keep him on Prioxicam the entire time but be careful to take blood every two or three weeks because Prioxicam is NSAID and can cause kidney damage.

So when I say aggressive I mean not to sit and wait between treatments hoping they worked, not to assume that all the cancer is gone just because it looks like it might be. It is so much about timing. And I totally agree with you that it is so important to maintain the quality of their life. I have done that for my boy and that I would not change at all! :-)

I will warn you though when you speak of quality of life, this is a very painful cancer for the dog to have, watch closely for signs of pain, sometimes it is not obvious, it is a long hard road. My dog's pain communication has all been very subtle he has only yelped three times through this entire 9 moths (of course before the removal and then after the damn cancer returned). A yelp is obvious, but he has done some not so obvious things and had I not been very in tune with his personality I might not have noticed. Pain management is an important part of going through this process. And you are primarily managing the pain of the cancer. The treatments are nothing compared to the cancer.

If you have any more questions I would be happy to help.

Unfortunately, here in the UK we dont seem to have the same advances in certain areas of animal medicine that you have in the U.S. None of what you where offered for Dylan was even an option for me and my beloved boy. I was told that Chemo doesnt work on Nasal SCC, radiation therapy after a consultation i was told was not an option either. Laser Surgery is not used in this part of the UK. Really i wasnt left with any options, i was really left to my own devices. I was told that he had 3 - 4 months my boy lasted 7 months and that was with no real help from the veterinary world. That you have managed to get your boy into a long term remission is unbelievable!!! I only wish that all the options you had, had been available to me, then my boy may still be with me today!! Diagnosed at 8 and gone at 9, is no real age, we were hoping that he was going to be with us until at least 13 or 14. I feel that he was cheated out of his time, by an evil, nasty disease, which is made all the worse, when it is actually visable and you can see it growing day by day and know there is nothing any professional can do to help you!

I am thinking this may be the type of cancer my beloved samoyed had 10 years ago, but he had it in his mouth, one day I noticed a large lump in the roof and sides of his mouth, it was difficult to see initially because all inside of a sammys mouth is black pigment, we had the growth removed, and the vet told me it was very aggressive, I was awating to take him to a vet hospital some many miles away, to arrange chemo treatment etc. and the lump had returned in less than 3 weeks by this time it was spreading down his throat and causing difficulty breathing, he hated to travel in the car and would have been so stressed out I feared he would die with not being able to breath and the stress, sadly in our case we had no option but to PTS, it was the hardest thing to do to look at him and see no external reason for this but I dont feel he would have lasted through any treatment.

Mo

It is terribly hard, my heart is aching and I am going through that now. There is nothing more we can do and the cancer is taking over his head and moving into his nose so that he can't breathe. It is just starting to get into the nose but we are seeing the signs of it being there so I know he does not have much time left. We numbed his head around the tumor with the nerve block so he is not in pain, but I know it is just a matter of time before the cancer blocks his nose. But otherwise he is a totally healthy dog who has a zest for life and can walk for a couple miles at a time. Yesterday we took him out to the Civil War battle fields and he was running like a young dog and tracking deer.

You would not know this dog is sick but I think it is also starting to get into his brain because his personality is starting to change a little bit as well. He has been growling at our other dog for no reason, they have always had a wonderful relationship and it makes my other dog sad. It is so sad to see him changing before my eyes. But again, he can still do everything like a normal dog.

It is a terrible terrible cancer and I wish so much we had been able to be successful in curing him. I think there are only a lucky few who do have that success with this cancer. I am sorry you had to go through it with your dog too, it is terribly hard and painful. I have lost dogs before (not to cancer), and it was never this hard. All the decision making, all the pain the cancer causes, the way you want them to continue living thier happy life but the cancer has other plans, the ups and downs thinking each time that maybe they are cured and you can just go back to living normal. It has just been emotionally exhausting. My heart has been broken this entire year, althouhg I have made sure that he has had the best year of his life. He has gotten special food everyday, fresh cooked salmon, shrimp, turkey, chicken, lamb, veggies, etc. and we have gone on so many walks, every day at least 3 long walks. I have not really left his side for more than a couple of house at a time. I take him to dog friendly public places, a vineyard, dog food stores, outdoor shoping centers, doggy yoga class, oh and of course he loves to go to grandma's house too. Everytime I go over there he goes too. We go to all these places on a regluar basis. Oh and all the doggy massages I have given him. I have done everything I can to make his life better since he has had to have such an awful cancer. Luckily the timing worked out also because as a result of the bad economny I lost my job the day after I got his diagnoses. This was terrible news but at the same time was so perfect because it allowed me to give everything to my cancer baby who was going to be robbed of life too soon.

Do you have a dog with Squamous Cell Carcinoma now again?

I am so sorry to hear such disheartening stories about SCC in the UK. Here in the States, I was told the same things by "regular" vets, "sorry, no cure", and decided to become my dog's biggest advocate. Vetrinary medicine is changing so fast, and it's so important to see the best oncologist you can. It's a scary, unknown world when our beloved dogs have cancer, and helping them to fight the battle is just the beginning. When I would look at Dylan, his happy face, I realized that I needed to take his approach at life. To live each day to the fullest, smile and have fun, and not worry about what the future would hold. He is such a sensitive dog, that he knows when I am worried, and I wanted his life to be one big party, no matter what the outcome. So we, too, played, danced, took long walks, basically we spoiled him rotten. He barks for food? Guess what, he gets it. He barks for a walk, guess what, we go. But, I, too, know that cancer is an incidious disease, and no matter how hard they tried to get every single cancer cell, there may still be some floating around inside him somewhere. But, Dylan doesn't know that, and he enoys the moment he is in. When he gives me the "look" that life has become a burden, I know it will be time to help him cross the bridge. I hope and pray for you all going through this. Our dogs give us so much, that we need to do what we can, when we can. You'll know when it's time to let go, knowing your heart will break. This is something we all go through when we open our hearts and lives to these wonderful creatures. God bless.

After some difficult decisions, we decided last night to move forward with the chemo treatment similar to what Dylan had. I can't locate an oncologist that can do the gel treatment that was described. We were offered surgery to remove half of his nose. My husband and I elected not to do it.

I looked at his nose last night and it appear the soft tissue swelling has exceeded the midline of his nose. After reading several articles, sugery is at most 50/50. Pez is a wonderful dog, and we may have decided to due the surgery if he was younger. He is 11 1/2 years and with a life span of a lab being 12-14 years, I did not want him to lose the greatest sense for a dog. With the chemo we can gauge if it is working. If it is not working or he is not himself, we will stop it and enjoy the time with him.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Oh my goodness, I must have missed that key detail that they were recommending removing his nose, that would be terrible and it sounds like you are doing the absolute best thing for him. When I said if surgery was an option I meant if it was a good option as in the case with my dog where it was just in his sinus. I am so glad to hear that you are not going to do that surgery, and I am horrified that it sounded like I was suggesting that removing his nose was a good idea! I am sorry to hear you could not find the chemo gel but they probably would not be able to do it anyway if they do not do surgery. I am praying that your dog will get great results with the chemo treatments. Did they mention putting him/her on prioxicam at the same time? Supposedly prioxicam and chemo work really well in conjunction. Best of luck to you and your baby and don't forget to ask for the anti-nausea and anti-dirrhea pills when you start your dog's treatments.

I have my fingers crossed that Pez does as well as Dylan has done. Dylan was a month shy of 12 when his cancer started. His oncologist was thinking 3 or 4 months more of life, with treatment, and it's been well over a year, two since the beginning. Piroxicam was given to him during treatment, and he is actually still on it. I might suggest that you take pictures all along your journey, so that you can judge if it's working or not. We did with Dylan, and as his chemo treatments came about, I brought the pictures in so that his oncologist could judge along with us, if the treatment seemed to be working. His nose was terribly mis-shapen by the time chemo was started, and I knew he was in pain from the swelling. I was playing fetch with him before his first treatment and accidentaly him in the nose with a tennis ball. He stopped, went and lay down, and didn't move for more than an hour. Now he's back to giving me nose butts if I'm not shooting it fast enough. If you want to see pictures of what Dylan's nose looked like, I'd be happy to email them to you privately. Good luck, and hugs and kisses to your wonderful friend. Please keep us posted as to how he's doing.
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