Are they a different breed to "real" working border collies?

Just wondered cos the show ones I saw yesterday smelled of talc or similar, had been for a backcomb and had probably never ran more than 25m in their lives.

Also seemed smaller than most working collies?

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and im a moaning old fart

My parents have owned two Border Collies their first was from a working line. Their second was from a show line. I think we used the phrase strain as opposed to line

They were both pets and had similar traits but Shep from a working line was actually smaller than Leiba.

It wouldn't surprise me if the two are differing, but I really don't know.

Sue

I suppose it's another case of tampering for cosmetic sake? Border Collies ain't pretty (gorgeous maybe) but not pretty! They are real dogs who look best after a day out in the rain and muck, that includes my long haired bitch LOL

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and im a moaning old fart

mum neither has long hair or is a bitch.... i may be a bitch and i'm not long hair either, don't know what you're talking about!

Fadey fails to recognise Tess, our border collie, unless she needs her feet warming in Tess's long coat lol

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and im a moaning old fart

Where did you see these, then? It's against KC Rules to use have any type of product in the coat when the dog is being shown. Most show border collies I know do look absolutely stunning in the ring - but will and do run and play for miles when they are "off duty", so to speak. Believe me, they can and do get just as filthy as their working cousins.

There are two different types of coat allowed - the really thick ones are just that, thick and abundant, and not backcombed! As for size, there are some smaller border collies out there, but the breed standard says 53cms for dogs, with bitches slightly less.

I've c & p'd the bits from the Kennel Club Breed Standard for you below:

Coat
Two varieties: 1) Moderately long; 2) Smooth. In both, topcoat dense and medium textured, undercoat soft and dense giving good weather resistance. In moderately long-coated variety, abundant coat forms mane, breeching and brush. On face, ears, forelegs (except for feather), hindlegs from hock to ground, hair should be short and smooth.

Size
Ideal height: dogs: 53 cms (21 ins); bitches slightly less.

There are still the good old working lines being shown BUT there are a lot of 'pretty' dogs also being shown now I have grown up and love the true working lines all the dogs that TinyTashi handles are all ISDS registered and all work on the farm during the week. I have to admit that I often steward the border collie ring and wouldnt like some of them to go and fetch my sheep off the mountain LOL

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Kennel Club have only just recognised border collies as a breed, but still not clear about breed standards because you have the welsh and scottish versions which do vary in size............

Being a working dog and up until very recently bred for working purposes only, "pedigrees" can somewhat be ambiguous, so I personally register my dogs as "working collies" and try to keep them as natural to the breed type as possible, sleek and slender NOT puffballs! Mine run each and every day for not less than an hour usually much more, my collies have well developed chest muscle which I notice is lacking is many show specimens.

Yes, the use of artificial colourants are banned in show dogs but excessive combing and "wrapping" up in cotton wool isn't unfortunately.

Please let Border Collies be what they are..... grubby, muddy, smelly and a joy to own, they'll be happy and you will too.

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and im a moaning old fart

You whinging again LOL xxxxx

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Well, I can only repeat that the show border collies are exactly like that when they are not being shown - the ones I know certainly are! However, just like every breed shown, they are bathed and cleaned for the show ring. You only have to watch Alan's video of Evie playing football to see her muscles, to see how she can run, to see how happy she is. And she's a show border collie.