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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2008, 05:31 PM
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Re: E-Collars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laudenham View Post
lemmsy

What do you do if your dog doesn't obey and u have no time to train them? erm? electrocute them?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PMSL - Good on ya Lemmsey, your a sure sign the educational system is failing the kids........Heres some real e-collar stuff not just word manipulation on the internet, ignore whatsit, the touch is no different than an Eccles cake see below

Recall from permitted hare chase
YouTube - PLEASE READ - EDUCATIONAL VID LIST Hare Chase With Recall

Recall from aggressive incident
YouTube - Recall From Aggressive Incident -

Training by touch – educational demo training with an Eccles cake
YouTube - Part 4 -Training By Touch, Pen, Eccles Cake, E-Collar Stim

Full you tube lists

Set of 4 educational videos - Learning Principles Of training by touch - E-Collar Training – Lost/Out Of Sight Dog Recovery
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Long & Short range chases inc 1 emergency, with recalls (some without) deer, birds, other dogs, hares
12 videos
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

APDT Positive training Fall Out
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Spot the dog where an e-collar was one of the training aids!
http://uk.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=14E7198EDD9147B8

APDT Dog Recovers RelationshipWith Prong Collar
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.








.
May I suggest you watch the video posted in this thread then,
Shock Collars debate
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2008, 05:50 PM
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Re: E-Collars

I cannot gte onto Youtube at the moment, as my computer won't download the latest Flash Player, so I can't use the links.

One of my girls is a working gundog. The amount I have seen these collars abusively used ont he field, when owners have simply not bothered to train their dogs properly absolutely appalls me.

Regardless of the level of discomfort/pain they apply, they are still applying discomfort/pain, or they wouldn't work. I personally never want my dog to do something for me because the alternative is that I will inflict discomfort or pain upon them.

My gun trained girl will come instantly when called, regardless of the distraction, whether that be chasing a rabbit or deer, or attempting to say hello to another dog or person. It hasn't happened by accident, and as she has never been especially toy/food motivated it took rather more effort than it otherwise would.

She doesn't only come to me for a treat, but I couldn't give two hoots if she did. She'd still be returning because she wanted to, not because she was trying to avoid whatever happened if she didn't. I know which I prefer.

As for Cesar Milan, I'd be interested to read the thread, if someone can please link it, but I'd probably be best not to go there......
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Old 24-05-2008, 06:47 PM
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Re: E-Collars

Laudenham, regardless of the behaviourist or trainer seen, the method is only as good as the person applying it. On top of that, a high proportion of training classes and 'behaviourists' are useless. Sadly, negative reinforcers or aversives are far easier to use and take far less time to train with. I don't doubt they work, but they work for the wrong reasons.

If a dog persists in an undesirable behaviour, it is for one of two reasons. Either the dog hasn't been taught a reason not to do it, or something or someone in the environment is reinforcing the behaviour.

I don't buy into the arguement that some dogs lives are improved or saved due to electric or prong collars. You don't put a dog to sleep because it can't be let off a lead in the open, you keep it on the lead, exercise it off lead only in safe, enclosed areas, or use a long line. In situations in which a dog had behavioural issues that REALLY might require it to be PTS, I seriously doubt shock collars would work, and where they did, they would simply result in a shut down, unhappy dog.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2008, 06:49 PM
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Re: E-Collars

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson View Post
Laudenham, regardless of the behaviourist or trainer seen, the method is only as good as the person applying it. On top of that, a high proportion of training classes and 'behaviourists' are useless. Sadly, negative reinforcers or aversives are far easier to use and take far less time to train with. I don't doubt they work, but they work for the wrong reasons.

If a dog persists in an undesirable behaviour, it is for one of two reasons. Either the dog hasn't been taught a reason not to do it, or something or someone in the environment is reinforcing the behaviour.

I don't buy into the arguement that some dogs lives are improved or saved due to electric or prong collars. You don't put a dog to sleep because it can't be let off a lead in the open, you keep it on the lead, exercise it off lead only in safe, enclosed areas, or use a long line. In situations in which a dog had behavioural issues that REALLY might require it to be PTS, I seriously doubt shock collars would work, and where they did, they would simply result in a shut down, unhappy dog.
Excellent Post!
Totally agree!
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Old 24-05-2008, 08:31 PM
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Re: E-Collars

I wouldn't put anything round my dogs necks that I couldn't try out on my kids first
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