agreed.
They'll always be disagreements over this subject. And believe me there is a lot of misinformation out there.Until you have no other option it's easy to judge. I for one am tired by the whole thing. I've said my piece and don't have the time or the inclination to argue anymore

Okay no arguing. My parents raised two kids and over a long period of time our family consisted of: -

1. a Pembrokeshire Corgi Duke, the first dog I remember.
2. a Dalmation Peggy.
3. a long coated Border Collie Shep, the first dog my son remembers.
4. a long coated Border Collie Leiba.

I have owned

1. two Jack Russells Sam and Tim
2. and now a Saffordshire Bull Terrier Duke.

The point I am making is we have owned a wide variety of breeds. We are dog lovers who feel our family is incomplete without a dog, we are by no means experts.

We have never needed to cause pain to any of our dogs. My father wouldn't even allow a choke chain in the house. He believed the dogs fur would get trapped and he wasn't convinced it would release. My father was firm but fair with us and our dogs. They knew their place and we knew ours.

A potential problem should be dealt with instantly to prevent an unacceptable habit forming.

Lets put it another way, children that have never had set boundaries who now have behaviour problems do we electrocute them too, actually that's not a bad idea he! he! only joking.

Sue

I dont really agree with the e collars but must admit the carefull use of one saved my friends dogs life!!!

She lives surrounded by sheep hills and her dog who she got as a rescue turned out to be a sheep chaser and it was just a matter of time before she got shot or had to be euthanised. A friend of ours (who sometimes uses an e collar whilst gundog training) helped her by using the collar to stop the dog chasing and biting the sheep (it was a matter of time before she killed one of them). He was very careful and at no time was the dog 'electrocuted', a mild stimulation the first time and the tone only after that did the trick. The dog came away from the sheep and returned to her owner where she was rewarded (this became a positive and saved my friend reprimanding her dog and destroying a bond that had been slow to gain.). My friend can now walk her dog offlead through a flock and the dog refuses to so much as look at the sheep. She could still never be allowed out of the house unsupervised just in case, but i think without this training she would have been PTS.

I dont think any old tom dick or harry should be allowed to use one of these collars, leave it to the proffesionalls, timing has to be of the upmost or it is just cruel and i dont think they should be used for basic training there are so many better methods...i myself use a clicker and choose to ignore undesired behaviour.

I am in no way approving of this method but (as i like to do) i can see a time and place for these training tools in the right hands.

Ang

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No matter how hard you try, you can't baptize cats.

Most e collars have a tone only which is usually enough to distract the dog, i have held an e-collar and the mild stimulation is not sore at all (and yes i was scared to hold it LOL!!!), anything more and i would suggest it would be cruel as it becomes quite sore - similar to the ping you get of an electric fence which in a dogs neck would be extremely painful!!

Used correctly the dog should not associate the sensation with the owner.

Also the dog should be accustomed to wearing the collar before it is used for training. My friends dog was introduced to the collar over a number of days.

(and im still not advocating their use just telling what i know of the use of these collars!!!)

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No matter how hard you try, you can't baptize cats.

I think you're onto something there! I can't understand how some people can use them with no problems yet there's clearly a lot of harm been done to the dogs in the pictures sallyanne has posted?

On a personal level I agree that you shouldn't have to use such a device, old school methods are better, but that said, you could say the same about something like a halti harness?

I must admit that my opinion was made purely on seeing those pictures and reading sallyannes post as I'd never even heard of an e-collar before, but now I'm begining to wonder if people have used them without problem, how were those injuries caused by the same device?

Youch! i hadnt seen the links for the pic's and yes that is horrendous

Whoever used that on the dog should have it fitted to them and the button pressed with the setting on full. I can see now after seeing the images why you are all getting het up about the use of an e -collar , i didnt realise they could cause so much harm in the wrong hands. Whoever had hold of the collar of the dogs in the pic used it it an extreme manner which is not what the collar is to be used for.

Some people should'nt be allowed to own or handle animals...appauling!

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No matter how hard you try, you can't baptize cats.

I totally agree E-collars are sick and should be banned whats the point - If your dog is naughty u shouldnt shock it!!

I'm totally against them, i'd prefer my dog to do (or not try to do) somthing because they feel rewarded for it whether it be by a game, treats or loads of praise. I don't want to terrorize them into submission through pain or fear.

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Paula
Grifdegalles

Having read posts for and against, I still cannot condone the use of an e_collar. I will admit I have only ever raised puppies not rescue dogs some of which I understand do come with additional baggage, sorry but the blame lies with the original owners. Antics that seem comical as a puppy, or lack of socialisation that becomes an uncontrollable problem as an adult dog unfortunately they end up in rescue centres for someone else to sort out.

True I haven't been in that position having to deal with dogs with behavioral issues and I have the utmost respect and admiration for people who do help these dogs.

May be we've been lucky with all our dogs they have responded well to training, it could also be that their behaviour although acceptable to us wouldn't be for someone else.

Duke did chase the vacuum cleaner and lawn mower, I could have thought how cute at 8 weeks old playing with the vacuum, I didn't, out came the treats and training began. Needless to say the cleaning didn't, well not properly.

Good Friday I had to walk through a field full of sheep with Duke, he noticed them and they noticed us but he didn't pull towards them. He was on an extension lead. I don't take chances.

Haltis' are not my chosen method for heelwork, this was the type I was recommended by the training club. I did try it, end of. To the layman they look like a muzzle, not the best image for a SBT to look at though he's muzzled. If they haven't been adjusted properly they can block the dogs vision. I could be wrong but I have been brought up to believe a dogs snout (muzzle) is very sensitive. I am not condemning them, they can be a very effective training aid, all I am saying is they are not my preferred method.

Sue

Wow, why is everybody about not learning about e-collars? and the rufus post??? that story is well know, it was an invisible fence collar, it was never turned on and the guy left it on for days on end in the rain, the dog got necrosis, the vet was a friend of the owners from school, she recommended the invisible fence collar.
When Rufus developed Necrosis from the pressure on his neck from the contact points, due to leaving the collar on for days on end, she wrote him the letter which was only for the store he got it from and she was trying to help her one time school friend to get him a refund, she had no idea her letter would end up on the net.
She (no vet) was not qualified to confirm burning and then when trouble started for her she changed her story to acid burns due to battery leakage because the collar he been out in the rain for days, shortly after that she chaged her story again to say she could not confirm any burning.
But, it was his fault for leaving the collar on all the time, it was never even turned on for use and never used as an e-collar invisible fence, and the vet, well she uses an e-collar herself and recommends them to her clients, so that's the real story of Rufus, haven't seen the story misused for a couple of years cause its so well known till now, as usual no mention here that the vet herself uses e-collars and recommends them to her clients.

Its a very old story everyone knows the truth, it means that of the many millions of these collars sold over many years one person did not follow the instructions not to leave them on for long periods and his the dog got nercrosis (bed sores), it sounded like he left the dog outside quite a lot one in many millions is not a problem, it points to the safety of the collars compared to other things in terms of the millions sold and that one user error case of leaving the collar on for a very prolongued period against manufacturers instructions in donkeys years.