PLEEEEAAAAASSSSSE
Go to the cesar millan thread... They are just not any of the things you think they are. misinformation again.

They are training a dog by way of fear and pain,whatever happened to positive training methods?

Karen why are all the organisations in my first post calling for a ban if they are harmless?

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Rooney Rumpus DNA Tested L2/HC Clear

Ellies Babe Genetically L2/HC Clear

ruardeanstaffords

How can it be good for a dog to "perform" how ever you want it to because of fear or discomfort? surely its better to get the same results through trust,patience and humane training?

Because some people just can't be bothered and are looking for a "Quick fix" solution instead of positive training.

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Rooney Rumpus DNA Tested L2/HC Clear

Ellies Babe Genetically L2/HC Clear

ruardeanstaffords

Agree with you both!

surely those images are from when people deliberatly want to harm a dog? they're not that strong to be able to make such damage unless the user is stupid or trying to harm the dog

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I don't agree with any training aid that causes harm and pain. I had never heard of these contraptions until I read a previous thread.

If owners spent quality time with their dogs and constructive training, building trust a bond will form and you will have a confident well adjusted dog.

Harm a dog and you only succeed in instilling fear and mistrust which is a recipe for disaster.

Most dog behaviour correctional programs on TV highlight the main problem over and over again the owners inability to identify and deal with the dog needs, which are exercise, training and leadership.

I find these programs a useful tool to further our training and identify areas where potential problems could arise.

I read where the e_collar doesn't hurt a human. How loud is a dog whistle? I am not suggesting a dog whistle is harmful to a dog just pointing out one difference between a dog and a human, we can't hear it but a dog can.

On a previous thread there are two links from Sallyanne showing dogs where an e-collar has been used. Initially I stated I couldn't look at the links, I did look no-one can tell me that hasn't caused pain.

If there is a misunderstanding here what is it? are there two types an e-collars and an e-friendly one.


Sue

I quite agree with you Sue,to shock a dog to train it is in my opinion cruel and abuse.
I wonder does a bitch with pups use such a device to teach what is unwanted and unacceptable behaviour?

A link to shock collars Say No to Shock Collars

And another
http://www.realpitbull.com/shockcollars.html
This is what it reads,

Don't Shock Your Dog!
Shock collars - also known as e-collars, electronic collars, or stim collars - can be harmful to your dog's behavioral health! I am staunchly opposed to the use of shock/electricity in dog training and management. On this page, I will compile sound, real information about these tools, so that dog owners may be educated before placing one of these misunderstood, misrepresented, and dangerous devices on their animal. Links to other resources appear at the bottom of this page.

Last updated: 12/14/07

An Open Letter from Dr. Karen Overall Regarding the Use of Shock ("E-, Stim, Electronic") Collars

Date: Tue Dec 6, 2005 4:01:19 PM US/Eastern

No, I have not changed my opinion and it is that there is never any reason for pets to be shocked as a part of therapy or treatment. If anything, I have strengthened this opinion. There are now terrific scientific and research data that show the harm that shock collars can do behaviorally. At the July 2005 International Veterinary Behavior Meeting, held in conjunction with the AVSAB and ACVB research meetings, data were presented by E. Schalke, J. Stichnoth, and R. Jones-Baade that documented these damaging effects (Stress symptoms caused by the use of electric training collars on dogs (Canis familiaris) in everyday life situations. Current Issues and Research in Veterinary Behavioral Medicine, Papers presented at the 5th Int'l IVBM. Purdue University Press, 2005:139-145. [ISBN 987-1-55752-409-5; 1-558753-409- 8]).

This follows on the excellent work done by Dutch researchers, in cooperation with their working dog groups and trainers, that showed that working / patrol dogs were adversely affected by their 'training' with shock, long after the shock occurred (Schilder MBH, van der Borg JAM. Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: short and long term behavioural effects. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 2003;85:319-334).

Research meetings can be attended by anyone paying the fee, and most published work is available either in the public domain, from an organization, or from someone with a university library connection.

There is no longer a reason for people to remain misinformed. Let me make my opinion perfectly clear: Shock is not training - in the vast majority of cases it meets the criteria for abuse. In my patient population, dogs who have been 'treated' with shock have a much higher risk of an undesirable outcome (e.g., euthanasia) than dogs not subjected to shock, and I never recommend euthanasia. In all situations where shock has been used there is some damage done, even if we cannot easily see it. No pet owner needs to use this technique to achieve their goal. Dogs who cease to exhibit a problem behavior usually also cease to exhibit normal behaviors. The only data available support the idea that shock is neither an effective nor suitable training tool.

That said, it's time we replaced everyone's personal mythologies and opinions with data and scientific thinking. Such opportunities are now available, but are often not exploited.

For example, the statement: " Major veterinary universities have tested E- collars since the mid 60's when they were invented. No evidence of any damage, Physiological or psychological has ever been found." is patently and wholly false. For the evidence re: data - see above. As for the initial statement - it's WRONG. It's a MYTH. The specialty college (ACVB) even conducted a census a few years ago to see if we could find ANY truth to this and there was NONE. We couldn't get anyone to say that they had - or knew someone who had - participated in such tests and studies. This pattern of behavioral repetition is representative of the danger of myth, and also of the power of the scientific method. Science tells you when you are wrong. Myth allows you to steal credibility where none is earned. That particular myth has damaged universities too long, and it has traded on the reputations of people who neither endorsed that decision, nor supported the finding, and it must stop.

I hope this helps. I have never thought we could get via electricity what we couldn't get by advanced training and hard work. Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D.,

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Rooney Rumpus DNA Tested L2/HC Clear

Ellies Babe Genetically L2/HC Clear

ruardeanstaffords

i have never heard of them and certainly wouldnt want to use ons

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Agreed, I go that bit further I don't need to use one, anyone who thinks differently shouldn't have a dog.

Sue