Hi, i've spent the last year trying to decide what dog I would like next so would like to ask any experienced labrador/dog owners if they have any advice of what I should be looking for. My last dog of 14 years was a '57' from a rescue centre and I didn't have any of this pedigree/working dog/show dog/kc registration/breeders credentials/innoculations/diet worry. Now that i've decided i'm going to pay for a pup, I might as well make sure I get a good one. I want a black labrador dog as a family pet and playmate for my 5 year old and after looking on the internet, I pretty much know that if i'm looking for a dog that isn't going to have problems when it's old i'm looking for a hip score as low as I can get, down to 0/0 and according to what i've read on this forum, not over 8/8, the rest of it though is probably less science and more experience, something which I don't have with single breed dogs. So if you can help, these are the questions that are stopping me finally picking a pup... Some of this will be barkingly obvious to you but to me it's not i'm afraid.

How do I know that the person i'm buying off is not going to stitch me up? (I read somewhere never to pick the slow one of a litter or the bossy pup that comes running up to you first. What if there's only one left and I get taken advantage of?) I know breeders might tell you to take pups with problems back and they may give you a different one but this animal would be a pet and not so easy to do as if I was simply after a working dog.

What do they mean when they're talking about the clarity of the eyes and how will I know without any experience what i'm looking for and does it really make that much difference?

As I just want my dog as a pet and it's almost a certainty that when he's of age he'll be in for the chop, is his pedigree really relevant?

If I only intend for my dog to be a pet, does it make a difference to it's temperament if it's from a long line of hunting dogs or it's parents/grandparents were all show dogs?

Is there any noticeable differences of temperament/care/health with dogs versus bitches?

I'm happy to go on searching for as long as it takes to find the right animal but it's a bit liking buying a car. I always ask a mechanic for his advice first.

I live in the North East so anyone who can point me in the direction of someone local and with local breeders knowledge who may be willing to guide me through the process would be great. If not though, any advice at all will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Chris

You have chosen a very popular breed, so lots of litters to choose from, if there is only one left, ring up about another litter instead. If you buy a dog from strong working lines, it may well be a strong working dog, which is fine if you want to work it but can be a nightmare as a pet dog.

As regards sex I find bitches more bidable than dogs, though others may disagree.

I'm sure other can give you info as to what to look out for health wise.

Now where shall i start lol. I have 2 yes 2 labrador bitches and would,nt change it for the world it was the best choice we ever made . I like you trawled web sites and looked for breeders and asked myself the very same questions about sex, breed standard , health ,ect ect . firstly as said by jenny bitches are easier and you dont have the whole humping the sofa cushions and any poor unsuspecting visitor that pops in . We have a friend who has a black lab male 11 months old and he had to have the chop 2 days ago because he was really going through a personality malfunction he wouldnt leave our girls alone and wouldnt listen to his owner . Our girls are golden in colour apparently they are a little calmer this is seen in the fact that so many of them become guide dogs ect they can be a little less highly strung . We know a chocolate bitch of 18 months and she is really boistous.there are always exceptions to the rule though and just like people they all can be very diferent. I looked into the differences between working lines and show lines and as far as i can tell the working dog lines are easier to train being not so deeply bred for perfection , some people advertise chunky type this just means they generally wont be so tall and are a little more rotund ( nothing new for a lab then ). Yes its worth getting the hip score low but this doesnt exclude problems such as hip dysplacia and arthritis our Daisy has ocd an irregularity in her elbow joint so she has glucosamine to help strenghten her joints , she is only 14 months old and most likely aquired it through her rapid growth stage at about 6 month onwards it can be caused through too much exercise or rough play with other dogs and you never know if they have it until they present with the symptoms ( lameness ) she is ok though she may just get a bit creeky with age but you expect that with large dogs as they get older . our girls are going to be spayed in April this cost varies from vet to vet we will have to pay £100 each dog thats with a discount as were covered by our vet insurance policy it should be £130 , but even to get a dog done will cost you about £100 . You want to find someone willing to let you make several visits you want them to have had at least there first vaccination leaving you with just the last one to do so an average wait to take them out should only be about 3- 4 weeks hip score if poss and the eye thing is make sure you look at the eye area it should be clean the eye clear no visible clouding and look for the eye lashes some labs have a condition where the eye lid rolls in causing problems but this is treatable . You must ask what they are being fed on and feed the same at home if you want to change the food you must do so over a period of about 2 weeks with a pup as there tummies can be really sensetive . be carefull what food you choose so many are just full of crap even the ones that are advertised as the best a lot of foods are made by such companys as proctor and gamble , stear clear of bakers its no good for a young pup . Pedigree isnt important unless you want to breed or show youl find the diference in cost about £100 for a dog that comes with a piece of paper , ours have papers but we never registered them we were told we could do it ourselves but never bothered it didnt interest me to get them KCR . Invest in a crate one big enough for a full grown lab they really are worth it they give the pup somewhere to call home it doubles as somewhere to keep them when you go out so you dont have poo every where and a safe place to sleep at night . Also get a book called The practicle dog listner , by Jan Fennell it will be your bible . it gives you so many reasons why certain behavior can be avoided with the right enviroment making sure from day 1 your pup knows who is boss and doesnt become a big dribly idiot. She tells you so many interesting tips about how to integrate a new pup into the home and gives guidance through lots of possible problems from bitting , teathing house training ect , she has her own web site very highly recommended . If there is anything ive missed or you just want to sound out any more thoughts feel free toget in touch you can private message me or add on to this thread . Im no expert but i do have 2 of them both well behaved and sosciable babies .
Andrea

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Thanks very much for your thorough and experienced reply about buying a lab. I'm finding the whole thing very daunting. Of course I love dogs and have always wanted a lab but now i've got it in my head that I want a black male. Maybe with your experiences with the girls you will be able to put my mind at rest on a few things. The reasons I was put off with females is... I hate seeing dogs sniffing round their 'bits' and i'd probably end up being as protective as if it was my own daughter, do you have any problems with other dogs always trying to force themselves? My sister in law has an alsation and a westie bitch and they both 'leak' regularly and I don't know how i'd cope with that either. It's probably just a man thing to be honest because having read what i've written, the same could be said about women in general. I'd hate anyone sniffing round my daughter if I had one and I doubt I could talk about periods with much authority either so both my points are probably complete rubbish, but, insensitive as us men can be at times, that's just the way I think about it when I think about getting a bitch (probably my own testosterone clouding my judgement!). What are your thoughts on that? Someone else has mentioned to me about the yellows being calmer and hence the use as guide dogs but on my travels around the net I read an article that said there was no difference at all with the colouring and it was more to do with breeding. Yours seems to be a more valid point because the proof is out there as guide dogs but then unless someones actually owned several of each colour and raised them all in the same way, how would anyone know if they are really different? I personally have only ever seen yellow guide dogs and black guard dogs with the very very occassional exception so there has to be something in it or could it just be as simple as yellow looks friendlier? After all, i'm sure blondes can't always have more fun! Is it pretty much par for the course then that if you get a male it will be driven to want to hump everything? How old are they when they get done? My thought there is that my son is only 5 and probably not wise or quick enough yet to protect himself from claws. Could the dogs 'urges' be 'calmed' at a young enough age that it wouldn't be big and rampant? Incidentally, the 14 year old '57' bitch that I lost last year tried to hump at least one person every week of its 14 years so what was going on there and could it still be a possibility even if I got a female lab? Will await your response before I bore you to tears. I'm so excited about getting a puppy I could talk about it for ages but sooner or later i'm going to have to make a decision.

Well as far as i am concerned there is no difference with colour,in fact there is a fantastic 5mth old black male labrador pup being walked by one of my friends,and to be honest he is just amazing for his age,he is such a little sweety pie and so so willing to learn.

I have only walked yellow bitches,the 1st pup Heather was a dream,the girl i have now is a live wire she is 9mths,she wants to be on the go 24/7 and hardly sleeps,don't get me wrong she is so good at all that she has been taught and learns very fast,but is a lot harder work than the last one.
So as far as i am concerned its all to do with the breeding.
As far as dare i say humping she is was awful,teddies other dogs heads,thank goodness she is loads better now(doggie hormones).

I had a chocolate dog boarder staying with us for a week and he was so layed back and what a big softy.He was from working lines.....

So breeding for me not colour that makes so much of a difference,
Male or female again depends how you train them and again where you get them

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Jody Guide Dog Pup,Chloe my chocolate girl


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kd9YL_XNGDw

http://www.labrescuecaithness.co.uk/

Thanks a lot for that response. It does show that even a yellow bitch can have the nuisance attributes of the dogs. Probably a good job we don't get to choose what type of children we have, if it's taken me a year to decide on a dog, imagine how long a child would take me!

Hi,
Personally I wouldn't touch a dog of any breed without a pedigree or KC Registration documents.You have no way of tracing the dogs history & ancesters without these.You have no knowlege of the temperament or any health problems within the lines.What are the Breeders hiding if the pups are not registered with the KC?

I am not familar with Labs but would imagine Working lines would be harder work than show lines,again without papers you wouldn't know where or how these pups have been bred.

To find a Breeder of good health tested Labs you really need to get in touch with the secretary of the Breed Club,(listed below)they will know of litters available or litters due from good reputable recommended Breeders.

Breed Clubs and Societies.

COTSWOLD & WYVERN LABRADOR CLUB. Sec. Mr K Gawthorpe - 01932 874539
EAST ANGLIAN LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mrs J Cole. Tel No: 01354 680375
KENT, SURREY & SUSSEX LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mrs K Walsh. Tel No: 01483 797653
LABRADOR CLUB OF SCOTLAND. Sec. Miss Farquarson. Tel No: 01382 459099
LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mr A Ellis. Tel No: 01766 522146
LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB OF NORTHERN IRELAND. Sec. Mrs Hughes. Tel No: 028926 38603
LABRADOR RETRIEVER OF WALES. Sec. Mrs M Barker. Tel No: 01443 842585
MIDLAND COUNTIES LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mrs J Lewis. Tel No: 01484 680123
NORTH WEST LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mrs Maureen D’Arcy. Tel No: Not available, please contact the Kennel Club.
NORTHUMBERLAND & DURHAM LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mr P A Smith. Tel No: 01642 292965
THREE RIDINGS LABRADOR CLUB. Sec. Mrs P Gill. Tel No: 01943 467926
WEST OF ENGLAND LABRADOR RETRIEVER CLUB. Sec. Mr G Cox. Tel No: 01566 785121
YELLOW LABRADOR CLUB. Sec. Mrs Wiles. Tel No: 01895 823227

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Rooney Rumpus DNA Tested L2/HC Clear

Ellies Babe Genetically L2/HC Clear

ruardeanstaffords

Im not saying any other colour than yellow is going to be mad lol by no means . All i was trying to get across was what i was told when we were looking and what we have experienced since . Yes our Daisy went through a stage of humping it is all down to hormones , and Jessie when she was in season was trying to hump everything . As far as dogs sniffing bits , all dogs sniff bits male and female its just the way they communicate you cant stop it and when they are not in season there is no real problem. as far as teeth and claws yes a pup will play and accidently scratch and bite but its just tem being pups as far as you 5 year old he will love it anyway weather its been clawed or not lol you just need to make sure that you teach him its not a toy and needs to be left alone when asleep or eating we had chewed fingers and sctatches but strong commands of NO and reading the book i mentioned will arm you as to best deal with such behaviour . Try not to get a pup younger than 8 weeks they learn bite inhabition from siblings and the mother and having one earlier than 8 weeks would mean they hav,nt leant such restraint . Bitches leaking unless there is a medical reason for this it should,nt happen unless they are old sometimes when excited any dog can have a little widdle its just excitement and this is mainly while they are still young . A dog can be done over 9 months old to allow him to mature into his male hormones and so there isnt any growth issues . Vets vary on opinion about bitches some will say you can spay them after 6 months some will want them to have had there first season and then its usually done about 3 months after that season i think this is to allow them to mature hormonally it reduces the risk of mamary cancer in later life . A male dogs urges while young are pretty irratic and i must say that our friends dog who has just had the snip at 11 months was a nightmare particulary with our one dog he would not leave her alone for weeks each time they met he would try and hump her every 10 yards or so we tried everything to disuade him from shouting pinning him to the floor to make him submissive to ham and nothing worked he almost had a red mist infront of his eyes and wouldnt listen, so poor lad had his bits off lol his testosterone levels will now drop over the next weeks and hopefully reduce the urge to hump and be so dominant . I guess cos we know him and his owner we didnt take offence to it and at times it was quite funny but i guess if it had been a strange dog we would have been a little more than put out . You do get very protective of them but you have to understand they are dogs and as such they have different ways of dealing with situations and often human intervention is fruitless if dogs play fight with each other as long as you know the other dog its cool it often looks worse than it is and you have to let them get on with it , As humans we expect dogs to bahave like humans , and dogs expect humans to act like dogs so a meeting of minds in the middle is called for i guess . Make sure you see mom dog with pups too and if poss the dad this isnt always possible if they have used a stud dog a couple of visits gives a better indication of temperament dont be tempted to have what looks to be the smallest and the quietest you could end up with a nervy dog and be carefull of the one who runs over to you and is in your face too . Oh and lastly yes blondes do have more fun .

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I would steer well clear of working lines as for colours we travelled with about 10 labs whilst over in the states and all different colours the chocolate bitch we had was called 'pudding' and that is exactly what she was, we had a black bitch who was quite lazy another that was a joy, the yellows all varied in temperament as well. The dogs can be a bit 'Bungalow Bill' but didn't have any problem with oversexed dogs either.

As for hip scoring yes an 8/8 is wonderful in an ideal world and a 0/0 is a rarity, I had a golden retriever dog and he had a average hip score but was what we call a hip improver all his youngstock had better hip scores than either mum or dad! At the end of the day you will prob never know what your puppy's hip score is because if you are not going to breed it is an expensive trip to the vet! Eyes have to be done annually.

When ringing about a pup ask for the hip scores of both sire and dam and also the dates of the eye test certificates, if you go down the road of visiting the pups ask to see the certificates for sire and dam before seeing the pups cos once you see them, you will prob take one home regardless .

Pups should not leave for their new homes until at least 7 weeks of age (which is what 'older' breeders do) or the trend these days is at 8 weeks. Most good breeders will hand on to you a 'puppy pack' which will have a small bag of food, 6 weeks pet insurance, and a diet sheet for the new pup, most will also have a contract for you to read and sign as well.

Good luck finding your new puppy and make sure you have everything in place e.g. crate etc before bringing babe home.

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I agree sallyanne about the breed clubs they will put him in touch with good breeders who will have made sure the health and temperament isues are delt with , but in some cases if people arnt going to show or breed if researched well enough he could find someoe who has taken as much care and attention to have a sound litter that wont necasarily cost what some breeders will charge , Given lots of them add an extra £100 To register them . Its not always in someones interest to know there family history if all they want is a good family pet . We have papers for both of ours but they were not KCR cos we didnt want to show or breed from them . If someone else had a bitch that they didnt KCR but were from sound stock themselves and the stud they used was of sound quality would that make the litter any less desirable for someone who wants a silly playfull dog to walk and love . This of course is just my opinion and at some point in the future i would be interested in maybe breeding Labs myself but i would,nt use the 2 bitches i have now i would invest in one that has all the whistles and bells , just because i would want to ensure the best for the people and the dogs themselves .
Andrea

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