[QUOTE=sallyanne;86159]And what depicts weather or not the dog is the best to you? Its title?
Sally there are plenty of dogs out there far better than some of the ones being shown today.
Just because an owner decides not to show his/her dog does not mean its inferior to the ones that are being shown.
A breeder that know his/her breed should have the knowledge to judge for his/herself weather or not the animal is quality enough to breed from. It does not take the personal opinion of a judge to tell you this!
I myself have used non champion sires which compliment my bitch, not her pedigree.
Its narrow minded to think good quality puppies only come from winning stock.
I agree that many usscrupulous breeders will just cut corners and couldnt care less if their breeding dogs are to standard but as ive said in a previous thread, its up to the buyer to do their homework about the breeder before they view the pups. There will always be 'bad' breeders out there so people need to be cautious what and who they buy from.
Like I said before sally, most buyers couldnt care less about pedigrees, they just want to know the pups are healthy and pure bred.
I think being able to see both parents is reassuring to many buyers.
I have had callers ask if I own both the parent and when I told them I dont they didnt wish to persue the it any further, despite the fact that particular litter was sired by crufts BOB for that year!

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Lifes roads are for journeys, not destinations!

Yes very true and well said

[QUOTE=bullbreeds;86166]I do agree with what your saying and yes for every champion in the ring there will be 10 walking the streets that are never shown.I have infact seen what I consider to be better dogs walking the streets than some of those that are shown.

My bitches Parents were not shown,yet her sire has produced the breed CC Record holder,
My dogs dam was never shown,his sire lightly and now retired as he is castrated.He has aslo produced show winning dogs.
So no you don't need champion dogs to produce a good litter.To be honest we have never had anyone put off by the fact that we didn't own the sire.Then again we haven't bred a litter for nearly 13 years so perhaps peoples attitues have changed.We also have a waiting list so they know the sire isn't going to be here as he's not owned by us.

So Sally-anne, you are saying all dogs that do well in the show ring have solid temperaments, I think we will have to disagree on that one, our centre has dealt behavioural problem in many successful show dogs over the years, often aggression, some show dogs have wonderful temperaments and some don't.

New puppy owners often want to see both parents, so they can interact with them, as after all they are buying a mix of both parents, to most pet people temperament far outweighs looks.

[QUOTE=Jenny Olley;86193]Not at all,but the majority of show dogs will have good temprements,afterall they attend show grounds where there is lots of noise,children dogs,strangers going over every part of them including their private bits.

The whole package should be bred for,health and temprement been top of the list.

I think peoples attitudes have changed, your right.
There are far more 'money' breeders out there these days that have sold crossbreeds as pure breeds and not to mention the dodgy paperwork! K.C papers included! I cant wait for the day that DNA profiling is compulsory.
Its these problems that have made the buyers more cautious and who can blame them.
It seems that pedigree's are of importance to the minority these days and not being conned has taken centre stage for the buyers. Im behind them all the way. They should be cautious, they shouldnt trust everything a breeder tells them. Where possible they should view both the parents.

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Lifes roads are for journeys, not destinations!

Of couse they should be cautious,again I agree.

I would also like to see compulsary health testing for breeds before a litter can be registered.
There have always been money breeders but yes there are alot more of them around nowadays,especially those breeding designer crossbreeds.
If the sire isn't available for potential buyers then most owners are more than willing for them to visit and meet him.

I don't think compulsory health testing is any way to stem back yard breeding and over breeding,yes it might stop quality dogs being bred indiscriminately ,but thats not the primarily concern of these types of breeders is it ! as most dogs bred ain't KC anyhow! So what would compulsory health testing mean to the avarage BYB or designer dog breeder!? sweet FA thats what!i ts easy for us all to give for us all to bleat on about whats right or wrong,but all the time theres a demand there will be an endless suply of puppys bred to sell!
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Health testing won't mean a thing to some Breeders your correct and no it won't stop BYB and others,but the supply out does the demand don't you think,there are endless amount of dogs in rescue.

You will always pay slightly more for a well bred health tested puppy that is KC Registered.

Education is the key,trying to make sure the public are aware of what health tests are required for certain breeds.
When we get puppy enquires we always explain about what health tests are required for the breed and point them in the direction of the nearest breed club.
There are still lots of SBT's that are registered with the KC that are not tested,so by making it compulsary before registering a litter you will reduce there profit margin somewhat,so instead of for example getting £400 for a KC non tested pup,they will only be getting around £200/250 for a non registered,non tested pup.So work the loss out on say a litter of 6 pups....

[QUOTE=sallyanne;89314]Health testing won't mean a thing to some Breeders your correct and no it won't stop BYB and others,but the supply out does the demand don't you think,.

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i don't think it does though Sallyanne,as people keep buying them just as much as people keep selling them !
and as for educating buyers ,i don't think the majority of buyers wanna be told anything ,they just want a new puppy! Most people that buy a new puppy do so via a knee jerk reaction!