Funny I didn't think robots struggled to keep their tails still even when playing dead


Or get to run through mud and horrible stuff

Bless him, still miss him x

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R.I.P Barney, I had 4 wonderful years with you, Thank you-29/04/06-25/11/09
The dog who saved my life
Proud owner of Maya, the Rescued Alaskan Malamute

http://www.dog-breeds-plus.com
Mine and My husband's Dog breed website

Blimey what a long thread, I had to miss some pages.

IMHO dogs that need mental stimulation and / or thrive on attention and doing something to get the reward and a pleased owner will both learn what you teach them to do and voluntarily learn what gets your attention that you don't want them to do, such as touching a box ...below is Muffin who heard me say "Good" when she was playing with a box and got a treat. So I whipped the camera out fast and touched the box and she repeated the action to get another "good" and treat from me. I also got to give her practice to do Wait in a different context.

muffin2012withbox2.jpg

That 'trick' may never be useful but that's not the point, instead of doing the usual stand, sit, down etc it was a new way for her to get praise and positive attention for doing something for me and feel good and clever.

If a dog enjoys itself that to me is a good reason to teach it more than just the practical things like recall, sports, activities or taking washing out of the machine for you. I don't think it matters what it is just do give that dog something to do to feel the emotion of happiness at knowing it is good or clever because that happiness and self confidence in your dog works in your favour as well as just being nice when it bounces back to you.

It's true that some trainers can go too far, you might see that when a trainer has a competition dog that does it's best, they want better performance, they put more pressure on the dog but it enjoying itself less and gets even less enthusiastic

What a sweetheart. There's just something about a springer that gets right under your skin.

it was not at whinge just a debate ! myself and friends noted these dogs even when OFF duty /harness lacked spontenus reactions and we wondered if this was due to over training.
We then discussed other obsessive trainers of dogs, whose dogs seem to us over trained. I would think like most things in life either extreme is bad for dogs i.e. Too much training or too little. The older you get the more you realise middle ground is good tee hee

I do know what you mean, there's a Border Collie round here that doesn't seem capable of not staring up at his owner when walking.

But maybe thats just the border collie intensity. Some people would consider Jessie to be the same, even Flynn hardly takes his eyes off me, but they are free to do whatever they like on walks, as long as they dont disturb people/dogs/livestock. They just choose to focus on me alot because they want to interact in some way, be that do a 'trick' for a treat or play with a toy.

I wouldnt say this is due to overtraining, just a desire to please or interact.

I can honestly say i've never seen a dog that appears to have it's spirits dampened or it's spark extinguished because of overtraining.

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Perhaps 'not allowed' would've been a better choice of words.

Its kind of like eating vegetables. Is it possible to eat too much nutritious food? Sure. But nobody eats enough fruit and vegetables as it is, so even if you tell folks to eat as many fruits and vegetables as they possibly can, every meal every day, they're still not going to over-do it. Same with dog training.
If you ask my dogs, to them there is no such thing as too much training. I have to literally drag them away from training class.

I'm one that believes every time you interact with your dog you are training, regardless of whether you *think* you're training or not. Dogs don't stop learning just because you're not actively teaching them anything, so every interaction is a learning opportunity. Dog says "hrm... when I do this, she does that" and makes a mental note. So to me if you say too much training that means not interacting with my dogs, and I'm not on board with that either.

Maybe its a question of the dog having too many cues? Nope... As someone who speaks multiple languages I can attest to the fact that knowing MORE languages makes my life easier, not harder... I imagine its the same for dogs.

I still say that the issue is probably what I would call incorrect or ineffective training. If your idea of training includes harsh corrections and restrictive choices for the dog then yes, I can see that getting really old really fast for all involved. But when training is about communicating, bonding, and interacting with your dog, its too much of a good thing for me to consider how to limit it.

Barney was the same, his world revolved around me and many a times I had to stay in his eyesight or he'd worry.

I could sit down in the grass and he'd sit with me, maya on the other hand will sit away from me or wander off doing her own thing.

This was how he was it wasn't anything to do with training it was the close bond we'd formed and his desire to protect me & help me.

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R.I.P Barney, I had 4 wonderful years with you, Thank you-29/04/06-25/11/09
The dog who saved my life
Proud owner of Maya, the Rescued Alaskan Malamute

http://www.dog-breeds-plus.com
Mine and My husband's Dog breed website

It's a border collie thing and nothing at all to do with training or "over-training" (even if there was such a thing, which I sincerely doubt). To say the border collie in question is either not capable or not allowed to do anything other than stare at his owner shows a lack of understanding on your part about the make up of the border collie. Watch a border collie working sheep, or even one doing obedience, and you will soon see that paying such close attention to the owner is what border collies do.

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Bergies and borders - what more could anyone want? Siamese and maine coons, of course!

From the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam:
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ,
Moves on, nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
(But you can always edit your post, of course )