Newfie's mum - regarding my doglet

NoSpecialFeaturesHere · #1 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 09:25 PM

Hello. Sorry for answering your question here, I didn't want to hijack the other thread with my stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfiesmum

Might I ask what you did to restrain him? It is not an argumentative question, honestly, and whilst I can see where you have done a fine job with this poor dog, and I agree that some dogs may need a lot more firmness because of their problems, did you pin him down? Alpha roll him? Knee or kick him in the side? I very much doubt it, or you would have made the dog worse.

All I am saying here is that CM very often talks sense, but his methods contradict what he says.

Of course I never kicked him. I didn't "alpha roll" him but there were many times I had no alternative but to get him to lie down. It was the only thing that would snap him out of it sometimes. He'd lose it over seriously stupid things. I do know that in those situations it's better to try to run or something so they can expel that energy, only, when I used to try that he'd just end up climbing up my leg, tripping me, hurting me, winding himself up even more. I wasn't incompetent but he'd get so fixated that there was no distracting him. And he would continue to dwell on whatever it was that had upset him for up to an hour after it had already gone.

It's impossible to explain how he was in one post. I do know and admit that I wasn't perfect. I was only twenty-two and I only believed in positive reinforcement and love and peace and all that. But I did my best. I quit my job to work part time so that I had more time to focus on him. I sacrificed my social life. I've given him everything over the years. And most people still want me to put him to sleep.

One of "the dog listener" trainers came out to us and told me to not walk him. I couldn't have not walked him, he needed to get out.

I agree that Cesar Millan shouldn't be encouraging viewers to be quick to snap and correct instead of redirecting and rewarding. I just can't help it, I don't like to condemn him when he gave me inspiration at a time that I needed it the most. All that "be calm and assertive" stuff helped me. I've never seen an episode that's made me think he doesn't care for the dog he's dealing with. (But having said that I haven't watched his show for a few years.)

newfiesmum · #2 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSpecialFeaturesHere

Hello. Sorry for answering your question here, I didn't want to hijack the other thread with my stuff.

Of course I never kicked him. I didn't "alpha roll" him but there were many times I had no alternative but to get him to lie down. It was the only thing that would snap him out of it sometimes. He'd lose it over seriously stupid things. I do know that in those situations it's better to try to run or something so they can expel that energy, only, when I used to try that he'd just end up climbing up my leg, tripping me, hurting me, winding himself up even more. I wasn't incompetant but he'd get so fixated that there was no distracting him. And he would continue to dwell on whatever it was that had upset him for up to an hour after it had already gone.

It's impossible to explain how he was in one post. I do know and admit that I wasn't perfect. I was only twenty-two and I only believed in positive reinforcement and love and peace and all that. But I did my best. I quit my job to work part time so that I had more time to focus on him. I sacrificed my social life. I've given him everything over the years. And most people still want me to put him to sleep.

One of "the dog listener" trainers came out to us and told me to not walk him. I couldn't have not walked him, he needed to get out.

I agree that Cesar Millan shouldn't be encouraging viewers to be quick to snap and correct instead of redirecting and rewarding. I just can't help it, I don't like to condemn him when he gave me inspiration at a time that I needed it the most. All that "be calm and assertive" stuff helped me. I've never seen an episode that's made me think he doesn't care for the dog he's dealing with. (But having said that I haven't watched his show for a few years.)

It sounds to me like you have done a wonderful job and put a lot of hard work into this dog. You should be proud. There is nothing wrong with taking inspiration from anyone if it makes sense, and being calm and assertive does make sense. His book actually helped me with a major problem I was having with Ferdie, though nothing as bad as yours. Basically it was "if you want a dog to do something, you have to believe he is going to do it".

There is nothing wrong with getting him to lie down to calm him, is there?

the trouble I was having with Ferdie was when he went through a year of humping everybody and everything that moved. I could not let him off his lead as it was a danger to the other dogs, being as he is so big. What used to happen was that we would get halfway home and he would lie down and refuse to move. Not a lot you can do when they are that big. I even had to accost three little boys to encourage him up once and get them to walk with me! How embarrassing! Then I took the advice in the book, and when we got to the spot where he laid down, I just carried on walking, didn't turn or acknowledge him in any way, didn't even look at him, just kept my mind blank and he got up and followed!

No one was more amazed than me. I just get angry when people tell me I have to be a pack leader and they pin each other down in the wild, just because CM says so.

The Dog Listener people are Jan Fennell's. If you have ever watched her she is a total nutcase! She is into pack leader stuff as well, but she says that dogs don't need walking. In the wild they play, they don't walk! Well they wouldn't find much food for themselves by doing that would they?

You carry on doing what you are doing; sounds great to me.

Honey Bee · #3 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 10:34 PM

Hi, I just wanted to say that I read your post on the other thread and this thread and I also think that you have done very well to persevere with your dog. You have given up a lot to help him.

As long as you are both happy now that is all that matters.

NoSpecialFeaturesHere · #4 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 10:41 PM

Thanks so much, that's very kind of you guys to say. xx

I'm glad you said that about Jan Fennell by the way. I have to agree. I've always believed a good walking routine is imperitive for a dog's happiness.

Since adopting this dog, I have read and watched and learned a lot of stuff in my quest to find the best way for Frank, all with a very open mind. Some things I agree with, some things I absolutely do not, but I do think I'm better for my dogs for having learned it.

Malmum · #5 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 11:02 PM

An open mind is all's that's needed when watching other dog trainers and quite often you find a piece of info from different trainers goes a long way.

It's easy to judge someone else's methods when you've not had to deal with a really difficult dog - just one that's a bit stubborn - but sometimes all different kinds of training help where some more conventional one's don't.

Whatever you find works with your dog is the way forward, it has nothing to do with what has worked with other peoples dogs. I use many different methods including some of CM's and no I don't use prong collars/electric collars or alpha rolls! He has given me a lot of guidance and with a strong powerful difficult dog that has worked wonders for me too.

I'm glad you have found what works for you and your dog - well done.

Tigerneko · #6 (**permalink**) 09-07-2011, 11:09 PM

I think all trainers say things or use methods that you don't agree with or wouldn't work with your dog..... there is nothing wrong in that. Like has already been said, I am not generally a fan of CM and wouldn't follow any of his methods, but the 'be calm and assertive' thing is very true and effective. I am more of a Victoria Stillwell person myself but even then, I have seen methods she has used that I personally wouldn't use.

No trainer has the answer to ALL of anyone's problems - it's a matter of looking into various different trainers and their methods and combining them/tailoring them to suit you and more importantly, your dog.

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