Please dont get upset about this, the laws of genetics applies to all breeds not just Cavies. And what is being explained her is something all breeders should take on board whatever breed they are in
Try not to take it as aimed at just your lovely dogs, as I'm sure it isn't
Mary
x

Cav, I know you don't show so are probably not as hardy as me dealing with this sort of thing, I face it every single week at the shows, smile, carry on health testing, and as long as you can hold your head up high you have nothing to worry about

You're right, Rach. it's the only way to deal with these kinds of attacks from people who think that, just because they watched that programme, they now know everything about genetics and Cavs (or any pedigree breed come to that because as I said in an earlier post, no breed is safe from these self-appointed "experts" ).

Could I just add that despite the kinds of people mentioned above, we should take heart from the fact that there are people who have posted on this thread who have been open minded enough to find the discussion interesting, and who have posted that they have learned something.

Which is why we carry on, ploughing the "experts" hoping that someone will actually read what we say/type and learn from it, or at least see both side of arguement

Cavaroony don't let them upset you. You are definately a responsible breeder as you had your dog mri scanned to check. I personally have learnt a lot from reading this discussion, and if I was looking for a cav puppy I would contact either yourself or Rach in the very first instance as I would know that you'd done everything possible to minimise any problems. Keep it up the both of you

I've read through the whole thread tonight (sorry been away for a few days) and I'd like to make a few points.

First, Margaret Carter was removed on a point of confidentiality - but I remember Rach posting on PDE a while ago that many people knew the status of the dog re SM - so how was this information suddenly confidential? In my view MC did nothing to defame the Breed Club or the Breed, she was willing to acknowledge her own problems as a breeder and trying to ensure that no more affected dogs were bred. She pointed out that although there were guidelines in place it was mainly the hobby breeders who were adhering to them and not the main show kennels.

So for Cavrooney and others like her across all the pedigree breeds, well done, this is the groundswell and eventually we will get there, step by slow step.

On the genetics issues, quite a lot of misinformation floating around. In summary, in simple terms, Affected being recessive
Affected x Affected - all Affected
Affected x Clear - all Carrier
Clear x Clear - all Clear
Clear x Carrier - 50% Clear 50% Carrier
Carrier x Carrier - 25% Clear 50% Carrier 25% Affected
Carrier x Affected - 50% Affected 50% Carrier

BUT there is a natural mutation rate so it is possible, very, very rarely, even with a condition related to a single gene, that Clear x Clear could produce a Carrier due to natural mutation. And, getting into chances of winning the lottery, Clear x Clear could produce Affected every thousand years and millions of matings or so. Just ignore this para if you are not happy with it.

Should one breed Carriers? If the Carrier dog/bitch has outstanding qualities then yes breed but only to Clears - easy when there is a genetic test available. but no dna test as yet for SM in CKC so hence the Breed Club breeding strategy.

The whole issue comes down to honesty and integrity. I have a heath checked breeding pair of ESS but one of their pups was born with a stunted tail - you cannot control the genes and every pup is an individual. This pup (now two) could pass as a short docked ESS but I show her to everyone coming to buy a pup from me as proof that no matter how many checks are undertaken, there are no guarantees. She is a happy, healthy, intelligent bitch but not breed standard. Before I bred I made a commitment to care lifelong if necessary for every pup I bred, so she stays with me, a daily joy, a loved and loving companion.

Where there is a health check available, breeders should use it - simple as that.
And where there is not, then knowing the lines and their health issues etc through pedigrees is going to be the best information that dedicated breeders can have.

Sgurr

Sgurr, I believe your post is spot on.

I did want to add that another reason that two "A" grade parents can produce an affected offspring is because SM is thought to be incompletely penetrant. It is also known to be often late onset. Grades are often given at less than three years of age. That "A" grade dog can then go on to develop a syrinx.

From all I have read CM/SM is thought to be recessive, polygenetic and incompletely penetrant - making it an extremely difficult condition to eradicate without gene tests as a dog that appears perfectly well can have all the wrong genes . . . therefore very frustrating for breeders.

I certainly have not attacked Cavaliers, so I am unsure where the last remarks are heading

Cavaliers are one of the nicest breeds and make wonderful family dogs and companions. I also know that the decent caring breeders are doing all in their power to strengthen the breed and I have pmed Cavroony to offer my support.

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i know this is many years later, but please could anyone who sees this and can help reply. i bought a dog off Beverly Costello in 2006 or 2005, and the show name is under the name "bouella" said bowella, not sure how to spell it. she told us history of the dogs which were bred was fine and there were no heart problems, after reading about her being banned from the kennel club for breeding a dog with SM you can imagine how sickened we felt. Does anyone have any information on which dog it was that had the disease, and if it is likely that our dog has it? as we have had many problems with the dog, and at the moment she is very ill and the vets are putting it down to heart problems, now i'm thinking it is SM, please can anyone help? And if anyone has her contact number i would like it too, absolutley furious with her, trying to make us breed the dog which we bought from her too, charging extortionate prices just to use a stud dog of hers. thank you anyone

Ask your vet to check for SM?

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