hey, 91! :--)

was he also this chilly in his relations with other dogs as a pup? [if he arrived past-6-MO, U may not know the answer.]

when U say tolerant of small dogs, is he more-willing to interact with them? or merely allow sniffs?
i am curious as to whether he is simply not dog-social, and civility is the best U will achieve, OR...
if he is anxious about dogs in general, would **like to** play, but either has no idea how, or is too nervous,
and the big dogs are simply too darned scary to tolerate or ignore - he feels too threatened.

a highly-social and dog-savvy dog may be able to help him, if he was under-socialized as a pup -
or if he arrived as a teen or pre-teen, and U do not know anything about his early puphood.

it is also possible that his reaction is due to differences in breed-specific behavior like play-styles, as a BC or Aussie
will play with another dog very differently than a Lab, a Pitbull, a scent-hound or a Mastiff. if he is unused
to anybody but other BCs like himself, even the visual differences can put him off entirely - prick ears, ring tails,
fluffy coats, sighthound shapes, etc, can all be disturbingly weird, and cropped ears or tails may limit the other
dog's ability to signal clearly.

was the Newfie black? just like humans, black dogs faces are hard for other dogs to read - the brows,
facial tension, eye expressions, etc, are less obvious without the contrast of coat-colors, brow markings, etc.

dogs with wolf-like markings - old-fashioned GSDs, Sibes, Mals -
or B+T dogs with facial-framing and accents - brows, mouth - are easier.
see this page of Rott-faces -
rottweiler face - Google Search

here are black-dog faces -
black dog faces - Google Search

any of this sound possible?
- terry

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terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

He's a rescue dog, so I'm not entirely sure what age he is; but I'm willing to guess he's around 3 or 4 years old.

I've had him for almost a year now.

Yes, he's perfectly healthy.

What exactly do you mean by intact?

This behaviour has started in last 3 or so months. He's become a little bit less friendly with other dogs, especially when he's on the leash. He will sometimes growl at other dogs when he's on leash, but I believe that this has more to do with a lack of escape when he has the leash on.

Regarding the trauma, I was bitten by a dog a couple of months back with Jack by my side. Jack seen the dog bite me and he certainly didn't take it well. Ever since he has been very aggressive toward the dog in question, as well as other dogs on my road who tend to jump up on the wall when we walk past.

Thanks for all the info! I work at a kennel where I'm allowed to take him with me while I work, so I will be able to get him interacting with other dogs. He's not instantly aggressive to other large dogs, as he tends to ignore them or simply sniff them. He does, however, have a problem with overly familiar dogs, and I hope that I can find a way of desensitising him to this.

I could probably introduce the two of them at work tomorrow. There's a large fenced off pen at the back of the kennels and I should be able to introduce them without having to worry about them running off.

I think this might be a socialisation issue, as Jack wouldn't even approach a dog when I first got him; but I was able to develop his confidence over time until he would happily approach any dog with a wagging tail. It's only recently that he's become a little snappy, probably due to some bad experiences.

I never had him as a pup. I only got him recently from a rescue center, and he was roughly 3 or 4 when I got him, so I'm not entirely sure on his history.

[QUOTEwhen U say tolerant of small dogs, is he more-willing to interact with them? or merely allow sniffs?
i am curious as to whether he is simply not dog-social, and civility is the best U will achieve, OR...
if he is anxious about dogs in general, would **like to** play, but either has no idea how, or is too nervous,
and the big dogs are simply too darned scary to tolerate or ignore - he feels too threatened.[/QUOTE]

He actually wags his tail when he's around smaller dogs, and will allow them to jump and climb over him. Perhaps he doesn't consider them a threat. Just today I brought him to my Grandmother's house, where he met her Yorkshier Terrier. The Yorkie growled and snapped at him, and Jack simply kept his distance and ignored her.

In general, he has never really played with other dogs. The only time I seen him even attempting to play was when he met my neighbours dogs. Jack did the "play bow" and began jumping around the Labrador. Unfortunately the Lab didn't take to kindly to the attention and snapped at him, causing a fight to ensue.

A couple of months back I was able to get Jack to meet a really balanced border collie and belgian Shepherd, and Jack got on really well with them, but I couldn't say he played with them, merely just walked around with them. He is generally amiable with all dogs he meets when he's off-leash, and he will make sure to keep close to me when he meets a new dog. If I begin walking away, Jack will follow me and ignore the dog; but I feel that if he spends an extended period of time with any dog they will begin to annoy him. I really wish he was more playful, but I guess that's just the way he is.

Yeah, the Newfie was all black. Regarding the playing styles, I'm not sure if Jack knows how to play with other dogs. The only time I ever see the "play bow" is when I chase him around the garden or wrestle with him.

Yeah, thaks for the response. I really hope I can figure this out, as I wouldn't want the situation to get worse.

Yeah, my dog ''fell out with'' yung black labs due to a few being allowed to jump on her but I have made sure to give her some good experiences with a calm young one she is fine now

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So, perhaps he simply doesn't want to play with other dogs - it doesn't light his candle? No big deal. Why not accept that, and realise that when he growls or snaps at other dogs it's because he's given off some "leave me alone" signals first, and they have been ignored?

I bet if someone bothered you when you weren't in the mood, you'd show some body language, then maybe say something polite, and only resort to "Hey, look - F-ing leave me alone why don't you?" when they really persisted which would escalate into a pretty angry version of that if they still didn't listen.

Border collies are not naturally social. They work with the sheep and the owner, and maybe with one or two other BCs on the same farm. That's how they operate... At the other end of the scale, the most social breeds of dogs are those who have evolved to live in large packs like foxhounds.

A border collie living to work in the hills of Wales or Scotland would rarely if ever see another dog except those others it lives with. You can't blame them for not being very social, it's not in their make-up. I very rarely see BCs here meeting and greeting other dogs, they usually ignore everyone and everything in favour of their owner, and the ball!

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ah!... i wonder if he was approx 12-MO when U got him, and is now rising-2 or just past 2-YO?
social-adulthood can be awkward for dogs who are poorly dog-socialized earlier, and this seems to include him.
he expects a certain restraint + social-distance from other dogs, and gets testy when it is not forthcoming.
with testes = intact-M; no testes = desexed, neutered, or castrated M.
that could be a big contributor - this dog lives on Ur street / road?
what is her/his general appearance, and how big a dog - over 50#? over 80#?

is there a way to avoid encounters with this dog until he is feeling more civil in general?
rather than **interacting** with other dogs, being REWARDED merely because other dogs are visible or audible is a better start -
his fuse is too short for interactions, yet. softly-softly catchee monkey.

is there an office or a separate kennel-run where he can see + hear the dogs, but NOT have them come up,
sniff noses, lift a leg on the fencepost, etc? an office room with a Dutch-door or glass door and setback?
[they cannot walk directly by the door, but can be seen or heard, nearby.]

if every time he SEES or HEARS other dogs, he gets a 1/4-inch cube of dessert, he will soon be happy
to see or hear other dogs, and will even default from staring or posturing to a new default - Look at U,
expecting his goody which can become praise, petting, a tug-game, etc.

let us know how it develops, hun - this will probably be a pet-project for some while, but so long as he
is NOT pushed to hurry-up, or startled by another dog, improvement should be mostly incremental,
with the odd backslide now + then. management will be very important.

happy B-Mod,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Definitely sounds like my Jack! The only thing he's interested in is the family. And sheep!

It's not that he's not friendly - in fact he doesn't mind people approaching him and petting him - it's just that he doesn't go looking for attention off strangers or other dogs. He will happily sit by my side when meeting new people and will make no real attempt to introduce himself. I guess that's just the way he is.

**trish king** did a GREAT seminar on introductions and how they can go very wrong -
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

eek! running-off might be preferable, hun.
i might choose a less-pushy dog, or at least, not one he recently had a snark with - let the event fade.
yes, it sounds like he missed a lot of dog:dog social learning; and it seems he is still a bit spotty in his understanding,
or he was recently upset and has become tense, uncertain, untrusting, twitchy, etc.

happy training,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007