i know the woman who you may be talking about, she usually attends Birmingham Dobermann club with a very expensive merc sprinter van and selection of docked dobies there!! However, all her dogs are solid beautiful dogs and have had many championship wins.....

personally I prefer them with the tail in tact, and if you intend to show your Dobe, KC rules do not permit illegally docked dogs to be entered into competition where the public pay a fee to attend.

some of the judges (old school type) have their preferences and sometimes will place docked dobies over undocked ones (and vice versa!), just depends on who the judge is.

I have a 2 and half yo choc Dobie (Dcourts Prometheus Janus) 'Dante' who I got from a friend who breeds in Stoke. he is an accreditted breeder with excellent 5 gen pedigree and 27 champions/european bloodlines....sire is CH Gaindyke Yuma Von Mansty - Dam Dobermation Hathor. 3 of my dog's litter mates (including my special boy!) have been successful in the show ring all with their tails intact!!- mine qualified for crufts 2009 first time out, despite my being a novice handler!!

however due to work and time commitments - and struggling to trek to birmingham from manchester every wed eve for obedience and ringcraft classes, I havent shown him since the latter end of 2008...I have been trying to find a dobie club closer to home to get him back in the swing, (and I feel i owe it to him to bring out the best characteristics of his breed standard in him), but am yet to find one suitable....if anyone knows of somewhere closer 'Oop North - let me know!)


while you may want a dobie, if u are more bothered about having a docked dog merely for looks, and status, then go get yourself a staffie....the dobie has to want you too, and they are 'high maintenance'!! and they can take over your life (in a good way!) and end up becoming very collectable! lol!! they are soo loyal, loving, funny and intelligent (as well as being being a royal pain in the a$$ at times, especially when you want privacy in the loo/bedroom!! lol)....I'm now looking at having another one!!...

so good luck in your search, but please think very carefully before getting one and whether you are able to give ur dobie the attention it needs (and demands!) and learn as much as you can about them! ...(i'm still learning!)

If you're only just learning, then you shouldn't be studding out your dog. You say can't afford/are not well enough to frequent shows and put a title on your dog, yet you are more than happy to stud him out without full health testing?

I have found a review (judge's comments) on your dog online and the only faults were with the handler, so I think the dog would have done well if you'd continued and done the appropriate training!

Regarding the part of your comment I bolded above:

There are highly suspected DCM passers in your dog's pedigree, please have him checked annually for DCM via an echo (doppler ultrasound) and holter. (I know of at least 6 dogs with certain ancestors in common with your dog's pedigree who have passed or are currently suffering from DCM).

Vetmedin: Fun Stuff

Dobermann Breed Council Dilated Cardiomyopathy

DCM is something you do NOT want to pass on to innocent puppies. Please think twice about studding your dog without the appropriate health tests. 50% or more of all Dobermann puppies will eventually go on to get this disease. 1 out of every 2 puppies born. Please do not contribute to that statistic.

Good luck!

appreciate your advice Casandra, but FYI I was merely pointing out from my own experience, the steep learning curve I went through to make sure I knew as much as possible about owning a Dobie.

I am the first to admit i knew nothing about the ettiquette in ringcraft or what it involved fully when I first got my boy, and the thought of him being a potential show dog had never entered my head until the owner of his dad suggested he had great potential when she assessed himand his litter mates at 6wks old.

with this in mind I was willing to learn and do whatever necessary to increase my knowledge and understanding of the breed.... i made sure he was well socialised from an early age, attended puppy training classes, was adequately stimulated and well excercised etc.. and because there were no Dobie clubs near where I live I used to travel to birmingham (whic was a 3 hour round trip!) every wednesday to learn ringcraft....

the day before his 1st show in blackpool i was involved in a serious car accident on the way to Royal Ascot Ladies Day..( where i have since learned that i had sustained 3 ruptured discs in my neck) despite this i still went ahead with the show....he then competed in a couple more shows in the Aug/Sept '08, and during one of the open classes he had been entered in, he was attacked in the ring by a Boxer dog which left both myself and my boy visibly shaken and I pulled him out of the show.

from then on, whenever he went into the ring, you could see he was not enjoying himself/unhappy/lost his confidence (as had I), and I felt he needed time out to recover and re-build his confidence once again, before considering putting him back in the show arena again.

Y0u mention the fact i could not afford to carry on showing him/not well enought to frequent shows and to put a title on him yet happy to stud him without the necessaary health checks....

No, I am not happpy to stud him without first completing all the necessary health checks and have no intention of contributing to any such statistics. I want to be certain any of his future progeny are healthy, and free from disease.

And while he is currently advertised on studyourdog.com, I am gaging interest / testing the water/planning ahead so to speak. Although not in the sense that I am prepared to compromise the future health of any pups he sires, by studding him out before I have received all of his test results back...(which are expected back in the next 4wk, so I have been told). I want to do this in the right way and in the prescribed manner as a responsible dog owner and lover of the dobermann breed.....

I would love nothing more but to resume his ringcraft classes and to achieve his full potential and hopefully become champion, but it is not as important as having a healthy, happy dog. first and foremost he is a much loved family pet. I have now found a mixed breed dog club close to where I work which does ringcraft and other training classes, and he will be starting back next tuesday!
last year it was discoverd I had a broken left wrist which had been undiagnosed from the time of my accident, and so required specialist hand surgery to pin it, and 3 months in cast, not able to drive or write, or go to work during that time (I run a busy child protection duty team, and also qualified sign language translator and independent court consultant) - so Money was definately NOT an issue,!!

having recently returned to work 4 days a week, I have now found out I have a degenerative bone condition making me more susceptable to broken bones, and now my right wrist is also broken and once again in cast for 3 months! (Just call me 'Lucky'!)....

..combine this with only having 15% use of my left hand,the physical logistics and limited function of both wrists, coupled with having developed a phobia of driving n using public transport, it is not hard to see how it has hindered things!!!

Yet despite the above, I am more detrmined now to return to competition with my boy, if only to prove the 'doubting thomas's' wrong, and try to break down the apparent cliques and 'snobbery' that goes on between some KC owners/breeders/judges when it comes to sharing their knowledge and expertise!!...and to prove you really can teach an old dog (me) new tricks!!

so instead of being precious with your obviously far greater superior knowledge base, and making wild assumptions about the type of person you think I am, in being critical , why not share that expertise in a more positive and constructive way by setting a good example and helping those less expereinced (like myself)....remembering that we all have to start from somewhere!!...and everyone gets things wrong at some point, ...but it is an integral part of learning process..

I trust this now clarifies things? (my rant is finally over!!)

I was actually complimenting your boy, nothing negative involved, except that you really need to research those pedigrees a bit more because of the high risk of Dilated Cardiomyopathy.

I applaud you for continuing on and for doing the health testing that you have done. Have you had a 24-hour Holter done on him or a doppler ultrasound yet? These in my eyes are the most important tests that need doing before you decide to breed with your dog.

I should also mention that 6 weeks is far too young to be able to discern *true* potential in any given field, especially showing, as puppies grow and change a lot more up to the 8 and 12 weeks of age markers. At 6 weeks, they are only just beginning to develop their own personalities.

Again, good on you for continuing on with him in ringcraft, I too am disabled, but I never let that stop me from pursuing my dreams and goals!

- Oops - Sorry, I guess I was just having one of those days yesterday and feeling a little hypersensitive!! - i have pm'd you, but do want to know how i go about researching his pedigree further for the affected dogs with DCM (or do you know which they are?



yup u are quite right, i had forgot to mention that DR (the owner/breeder of Dante's Dad (is also a judge for the breed too) did in fact see pups at 8wks and again shortly after before they wre ready to be re-homed - when a friend of hers bought 'Otto' Dcourts Ouranos, and they wanted her opinion on which pup to choose... she was also present at the birth

...unfortunately I have lost contact with her, and wanted her to cast her eye over dante now he is much older....and recently heard 'rumour' that 'Alfie' has died? but not been able to confirm this, and in view of your comment about his pedigree whether he in fact had dcm also??

how do i find this out? contact the KC?

thanks!