Too late now though isn't it, so why spoil a nice thread when the deed has already been don?. May not be the best way to breed but we can sometimes put our judgemental cap slightly out of reach - surely!

ETA _- I wish some of you ethical breeders would have a pop at Bordie when a blatantly controversial thread is put up by him but no you only ever seem to go for the newbies who most likely actually don't know that there is a better way of breeding. Where as the afore mentioned knows only too well what he's stirring up but always gets away with it!

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Flynn - Kali - Britches - Bruce - T-Bo - Marty



"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

It has nothing to do with perfection and everything do with responsibility.

Give me ONE good reason why this type of breeding is a good idea?

Do people actually know there is "not a better way of breeding" or do they choose to ignore it? is there is ANY excuse for this when we live in age where information and technology is at our fingertips?

As to a 'better way of breeding', I'd like to know where one way has been proven better than any other? Please offer me proof if there is any.

Where I am from mutt is bred to mutt, mostly. My last mutt lived to 18 years with barely a trip to the vet. She was bred in the Northern Territories of Canada where we do not have vets for the most part, let alone cardiologists or opthamologists, that are a shorter distance than a three day drive. I have had others with and prior to her, living to 14 and 15 year old ages with no ill health. I also had a mutt suffer kidney issues in age . . . and those are the risks I am willing to take on as dogs are living creatures and we cannot eliminate those risks.

There are risks, yes, just as there are with any pairing . . . BUT are those risks greater or less than those that breed within a closed registry purebred dog to purebred dog?

Rhetorical question . . . there is no answer as there is no way to measure. There have not been enough studies of mutt health to purebred health to answer this absolutely.

What we do know is that:

Purebred populations have a HIGHER overall incidense rate of problems, but have less in number to sort through.

Mutt populations have a LOWER overall incidense rate, but have more problems in the population to sort through and therefore when problems come there is less predictability to what they might be.

Neither is better . . . they are just different.

In some countries the more 'controlled' way is the one the most politically correct and most promoted. Not in all. I believe this has more to do with people who like to regulate others and push their idea of 'right' more than anything else.

That is because this controlled method - through testing - offers the most comfort to many breeders, as they FEEL most comfortable breeding with more knowledge. They feel most comfortable with predictability. In fact the knowledge they are breeding with is a drop in a very large bucket. Unfortunately to gain even this drop of knowledge they have to work, most often, within a closed registry. That, in itself, confers risk.

So there are downsides to both of these methods of breeding as well . . . one through lack of knowledge of what might be behind, and the other in the fact that in order to achieve 'purebreds' and partake of the information sharing breeders have been obliged to work in a closed system.

I have been studying genetics for years, helped to whelp my first litter 40 years ago when there was NO testing but those breeding pure still put on airs about breeding 'better' (a litter of 14 farm collies that all survived). I have been pouring through pedigrees and getting involved in breeding communities on breed lists for a few different breeds for that full time, and I have YET to see a way that I can settle on as 'better'.

My suspicion when first reading this post was this could be a nice working mix. It could also be irresponsible, but as this poster has yet to be asked about the purpose, their own philosophy of breeding, or the testing I will not jump to conclusions and jump all over them. I found it rude to do so.

http://rufflyspeaking.net/blog/five-...t-youre-wrong/

CC

Don't know how long you've been a member but Bordie has received plenty of comments in the past, but it's old news and he does it deliberately for a wind up so not really worth wasting the time to reply.

Apologies to the OP if my post sounds at all preachy, or is upsetting in any way, it can be difficult to type out posts which relate to emotive issues and get what you want across on a screen, it's so impersonal.

I do hope you had knowledge about health/temperament issues and took these into account when taking this litter, you've obviously found out the hard way that it can be quite heartbreaking and I wish your girl and pups the very best.

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I was asked further up, why spoil a nice thread when the deed's been done? One simple reason, and I don't count it as spoiling, I count it as educating, not just the people reading this thread and obviously not the regular members, but for anyone else out there reading who thinks about breeding from their dog. If that's spoiling a thread, then really there's no reason to promote ethical breeding ever, because half of the times the deed has been done, and people may well just do it again without thinking.

I hadn't mentioned the fact that the litter is cross bred, I've done my part in promoting cross breeding as long as it's gone about with knowledge and forethought, there is certainly a place I think for well bred dogs whether pedigree or cross breed. I've got absolutely no bias when it comes to breeding dogs, you either do it the right way, or you do it the wrong way, not necessarily knowing the difference for the latter.

I like cross breeds; staffie crosses are my favourite and no problems with mongrels, in fact I see far less mongrels out and about in the park than pure breed dogs.

My thoughts are on promoting responsible breeding, rehoming and ownership whatever the breed of dog - and people not breeding just cos their dog is a nice one.. especially if the dog contains any staffy as it needs shouting from the rooftops what a dire situation this breed is in at the moment.

I may have a slanted opinon... the rescue I volunteer for is so over run with staffies we are thinking of having to shut our doors; we have had to stop helping one pound who puts to sleep up to six dogs (mainly staffies a week)... (thats each week, in one town alone) from the other pound we work with in the past week we have had about 5 dogs... all staffies...

So apologies if I seem to be preaching but its heartbreaking being constantly bombarded with emails of dogs going to be killed this week cos no one wants them that it does make me ask anyone who is considering breeding to make themselves aware of the facts before they do, and well then if they still want to go ahead then its up to them. Shouting and ranting is not the key, education and information is.

I wonder how many JRT's are actually health tested. From what I can see in Dogs Today list of health testing requirements for breeds they only need eye tests.

Funny how my daughter was having a conversation with her BF just the other day and he asked if our dogs were insured. "The Mals are" was her reply "as Mals can have problems but our cross breeds aren't and have never had vet treatment anyway." Which is actually so true and we always said we would find the money for them should they need it, even a hip replacement wouldn't be that expensive in them but as two are eight this year and have not had any problems I don't think we need worry. Marty has hypothyroidism which the breed is prone to whether health tested or not. Kali suffers with bouts of pancreatitis now and then and of course Flynn had HD.

This is from experience I am speaking with my own six dogs, who knows the crosses could have been ill but they aren't. I find on here that sickly dogs are usually pedigree health tested and non health tested dogs/puppies and not cross breeds, in fact I can't actually remember a thread on a cross breed with hereditary probs, it's usually tummy, coat, feeding probs and allergies.

Would love to know the ratio of owners and their pure or cross breeds and their levels of illness once and for all! Will have to think of a thread with a poll and see how it turns out.

I feel for those who work in rescues it must be soul searching at times and I don't envy them one bit but it will not stop dogs being bred regardless of how many are euthanised each week, that is a fact of life. So when someone comes onto a breeding section on a forum and need advice for their litter of pups they should be allowed to be given information that they need in order to help that litter. If someone comes on who hasn't yet bred their dog then all well and good, give advice and try to let them see how difficult it may be for the dogs as they grow up and possibly not wanted - only possibly not wanted as not everyone will kick their dog out as soon as the novelty wears off!
I also feel for the wolves, tigers, whales in fact any animal you care to mention but they all suffer at the hands of humans and again little can be done about it and nothing can be done when the litter is already on the planet - no matter how much we care to preach!

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Flynn - Kali - Britches - Bruce - T-Bo - Marty



"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

wow, ive been busy and thought id let everyone know how jodie is doing, she is well and been to the vets for check ups and so have the pups, there all doing really well, we bred jodie with another farm dog as jodie and her friend (the pups father) are farm dogs, well jodie was, and the owner had lost his elderly dog a year ago so we said we would breed jodie so he could have two of the pups to help out with the chores the dogs do, ie, help with the pests and chickens and so on, JRT are great farm dogs aswell as loving house pets, myself and my sister are having the other two little ones, People have there opinions on here and fair enough, there are enough evil people out there that are cruel people out there and abandoned pets, but i no for sure my dogs and my pups are going toa good forever homes. thank you again for all the help you guys gave me when i needed it

i was wondering how it was going. how old are they now; 4 1/2 weeks isn't it? weaning well yet? have you picked your keeper; or are you letting the gentleman pick his workers first?
and where are those pictures

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"...She will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of her heart; you owe it to her to be worthy of such devotion..."


'You know, I've given the matter some thought, and I think I would be willing to be a house pet to a race of super intelligent aliens; the learning opportunities would be abundant. Additionally, I like having my belly scratched.' Dr Sheldon cooper. *