Pet Forums Community

Go Back   Pet Forums Community > Dog Forums > Dog Breeding

Dog Breeding Discuss all topics related to responsible dog breeding. Including help and advice on dog breeding issues regarding the mating process, pregnancy issues, post birth issues and all other related topics.

Registered users don't see this ad - Register Now (It's free!)
Like Tree24Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 15-01-2012, 11:30 PM
swarthy's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: By the sea
Posts: 4,458
swarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Choosing stud, COI etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyGC View Post
There are some cases where I don't believe there was a predisposition to HD - I know of at least one dog where the owners have admitted that it wasn't actually 'HD' because they'd been seen heavily training the dog jumping at 2'6" (the then full height in agility) at under 6 months so presumably making the dog jump at an incredibly early age to get it ready to compete at 6 months! No wonder the dogs hips are knackered. I know of other dogs where similar things have happened - particularly stairs and car jumping at a very early age.
Nothwithstanding injury - the prediposition still has to be there - I know of many dogs who've been subjected to far worse than you describe and thrown hips below 10 with perfect elbows - from dogs walked miles from the age of just 3 months, to jumping 4 foot deckings as a puppy doing retrieves - to living in upside down houses and storming up and down the stairs several times a day - and all been scored and come back with good results.

Two of my home bred girls, despite my best intentions, have defied every rule we've tried to put enforce - one injured her leg and was limping severely at 6 months - to the point she was at the emergency vets.

She spends around 50% of her life walking around on two legs - she's like a performing seal - we witnessed her scaling a 9 foot gate with no run up at 4 months and regularly dive bombing a 12 foot room in one leap. Her summers are spent diving in and out of the pool - total nutter she was scored at 2.5 - I was dreading the outcome - her hips were 4/3, elbows 0. Her niece is also very active - we tried to keep the two of them apart from playing to no avail - and my god did they play hard, fast and rough - the niece scored at 18 months, came back 5/4, elbows 0.

The reason we advise not to do all these things with pups is because we have no way of knowing which dogs will be predispoed to HD - and even where both parents have low scores, statistically, a very small percentage of pups (less than 1 pup ber litter) can go on to develop problems - scoring reduces, but does not remove the risk.

One of my own girls, as on an earlier post, has a score nearly 3 times the breed average - had we done any of the things described above with her - she probably wouldn't have had any hips left and a very different outcome
Reply With Quote
Registered users don't see this ad - Register Now (It's free!)
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 16-01-2012, 07:05 AM
PennyGC's Avatar
Pet Forums Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durham
Posts: 717
PennyGC will become famous soon enoughPennyGC will become famous soon enough
Re: Choosing stud, COI etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarthy View Post
Nothwithstanding injury - the prediposition still has to be there - I know of many dogs who've been subjected to far worse than you describe and thrown hips below 10 with perfect elbows - from dogs walked miles from the age of just 3 months, to jumping 4 foot deckings as a puppy doing retrieves - to living in upside down houses and storming up and down the stairs several times a day - and all been scored and come back with good results.

Two of my home bred girls, despite my best intentions, have defied every rule we've tried to put enforce - one injured her leg and was limping severely at 6 months - to the point she was at the emergency vets.

She spends around 50% of her life walking around on two legs - she's like a performing seal - we witnessed her scaling a 9 foot gate with no run up at 4 months and regularly dive bombing a 12 foot room in one leap. Her summers are spent diving in and out of the pool - total nutter she was scored at 2.5 - I was dreading the outcome - her hips were 4/3, elbows 0. Her niece is also very active - we tried to keep the two of them apart from playing to no avail - and my god did they play hard, fast and rough - the niece scored at 18 months, came back 5/4, elbows 0.

The reason we advise not to do all these things with pups is because we have no way of knowing which dogs will be predispoed to HD - and even where both parents have low scores, statistically, a very small percentage of pups (less than 1 pup ber litter) can go on to develop problems - scoring reduces, but does not remove the risk.

One of my own girls, as on an earlier post, has a score nearly 3 times the breed average - had we done any of the things described above with her - she probably wouldn't have had any hips left and a very different outcome
This is not actually worse than my example - which was that the person had subjected the poor pup to a regime of 'training' culminating at 6 months old to it being able and doing courses of jumps at 2'6" with ease. The poor dog had been 'training' over obstacles from day 1 it was home - it is impossible for any dog to have done what it did without damage. I would imagine it was 'trained' most of the day with tight turns and high jumps. Whilst you're right to an extent the torture this dog was subjected had an impact on its hips undoubtedly. It still competes (now at 2' 2") so it's not got severe HD but it's not undamaged. Without the torture I'm sure that it's hips would be fine. You can damage dogs which aren't predisposed to HD by stupidity.
__________________
Penny
Funfastquick Agility Dogs
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 16-01-2012, 07:53 AM
swarthy's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: By the sea
Posts: 4,458
swarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond reputeswarthy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Choosing stud, COI etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyGC View Post
This is not actually worse than my example - which was that the person had subjected the poor pup to a regime of 'training' culminating at 6 months old to it being able and doing courses of jumps at 2'6" with ease. The poor dog had been 'training' over obstacles from day 1 it was home - it is impossible for any dog to have done what it did without damage. I would imagine it was 'trained' most of the day with tight turns and high jumps.
You are 'imagining' the dog was trained day and night - but you don't actually know - as with anything, some dogs presumably have a greater aptitude than others. Presumably the dog has been hipscored and come back with poor scores? but from what you say, has asymptomatic dysplasia.

It's the landing position that would put most pressure on the joints because it's not cushioned, therefore such an activity would quite probably do more damage to the elbows than hips - one reason why dogs are more vulnerable to elbow dysplasia as the environmental impact from dogs jumping on and off hard surfaces are clear.

One of my pups - I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess at how many times a day she did this (from the off, she never once tried to climb the steps - she cleared them to land halfway onto the decking) - I baulk when I think about it now her hips and elbows are fine, as are her daughters and grand-daughter.


Conversely, when we used to do retrieves (no decking) with my girl we now know to have the bad hips, we quickly saw that the 'landing' position of her hips was very very 'different' to the girl in the photo and stopped - nevertheless, we no longer do it with any of my youngsters. Had quite a job blocking off the decking though - and never managed to stop madam clearing the obstacles.

ETA - the constant motion of a dog going up and down stairs and the position that places the hips in when coming down stairs has HUGE capacity for damaging hips - few activities put the type of pressure on joints as using stairs regularlly as a young pup - you only have to look at a dog coming downstairs to realise the hip positioning is anything but natural

That's something else the girl in my picture did on a regular basis as she somehow managed to open the stairgate despite everything we tried.

Last edited by swarthy; 16-01-2012 at 08:00 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sponsored Ads


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All posts made on this forum are NOT monitored.
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:55 PM.


PetForums is part of the Pet Media group of websites including | Pets4Homes | PetsLocally


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2