I was just looking on champdogs. Just been nosey really, not after another dog for a few years yet.

One of the litters I looked at had one bitch in it twice. She is the mum of both great grandparents on the mother of the litters side.

Is that normal? Good or bad? I am just curious really.

Sorry if this makes no sense.

__________________

Called line-breeding, you will find this in a lot of pedigrees at one time most dogs were line bred, ours nearly all have some same dogs on both sides of the pedigree, our last litter was an outcross that is where no dogs are the same this is to bring in new blood to lines. Hope that makes some sort of sense

__________________

The dog I plan to use with my bitch compliments her pedigree, as they have a few of the same dogs in there, from the third generation back. If we didn't line breed, or breed to type, we wouldn't have the pedigree breeds we have. Done right, and with careful consideration, it contributes towards the breed overall, but it does need a bit of knowledge and consideration. Not at all unusual though, the main consideration should be the COI or Coefficient of inbreeding, which tells you more about the individual dog and how *inbred* they are.

thankyou, I am not good when it comes to putting it into type

__________________

Thank you Tashi and Sleeping Lion.

__________________

Just as a note, if you didn't already know, if you go on to the kennel club website, you can look at the COI of individual dogs or planned matings. It isn't always 100% accurate, usually someone within the breed has a more extensive and complete database, giving a more accurate calculation, but it does give you a ball park figure.

The COI's from the KC website are (by me at least) being met with an degree of scepticism particularly after recently discovering there are 5 generation pedigrees in circulation from the last decade that do not contain all the dogs - some such dogs only born in the 1980's and 1990's - i.e. not necessarily very far back in a pedigree - my first homebred girl for example - her dad was born in 1998 - a dog born in the 80's could be as simple as her grandfather - yet not appear on the database - this will completely skew COI's.

This is just what I know of Labs, but I will bet it is the same for other breeds.

In addition - unless an overseas dog is imported to the UK - his name will not appear on the database.

As for 'health results' - even where overseas dogs are imported and added to the UK database - if health tests results such as Hips and Elbows are FCI, Penn Hip or one of the other overseas schemes, once again, these results won't appear on the database.

I see the inclusion of overseas dogs as something which will inevitably happen more often going forward because of the relaxation of quarantine laws coupled with the relaxation of laws in using AI on maiden bitches.

I spent nearly FIVE years trying to track a dog on a pedigree for someone who was trying to trace a pedigree for important reasons and we just couldn't find it - it was only through a chance conversation a couple of weeks ago that I realised this dog was actually on the 5 generation pedigree and down as "not registered"

The dog was registered and from extremely prolific lines - but was not on the KC's computerised database - it was still on paper - the initial response was "what's the problem" - even though the owner had bought and paid for a 5 generation pedigree.

FINALLY - she now has a 5 generation pedigree for her boy after several years of trying and we now almost have a 10 generation pedigree - but once again - we've hit stumbling blocks with dogs born less than 30 years ago not being on the KC database.

Sorry to go completely OT - but the information on that database must come with a health-warnings in terms of reliability hopefully the KC will complete their computerised database to give more accurate figures - but it still won't address the issue of AI used from overseas dogs, or missing health information from dogs not tested under the BVA / KC schemes.

=======================================

As for seeing the same dogs appear - yes, this is line breeding - you will inevitably get some screaming "no, no" - often those who've never bred a dog or studied pedigrees in any great depth - linebreeding offers benefits and certainties that outcrossing cannot.

Some breeders linebreed then outcross / linebreed / outcross etc and TBH - for outsiders, without knowing pedigrees well, some people wouldn't know what was a linebreed or an outcross.

To give you an example - when I bred my oldest bitch - a lot of her more recent breeding was pet / working - coming down from some very very nice show and working lines.

The first sire I chose for her was a veteran - on paper, the pedigree looked like a complete outcross - but actually, I went back to the lines behind her 5generation pedigree adding some more recent shoowlines I wanted the influence of.

It was a linebreed - but a very loose one compared to other pedigrees - to the novice eye, they wouldn't have a clue (and that's not being insulting - it's taken me 9 years to build my database to where it is now).

The second sire I used was an outcross over around 7 generations - but had similar showlines brought in that I brought in on my first litter because I wanted their influence - if I could have crossed the two girls best features, I would have had exactly what I wanted

In contrast, my youngest boy is a much tighter linebreed in contrast to all the other dogs I have here - brought in because it was lines I'd been after for a very long time and sadly wasn't going to get the opportunity to breed into my own lines

__________________
What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

Just one dog in a pedigree doesn't really make it 'line breeding' you'd have to be 'closer' than that surely? Line bred would be much closer... ie a lot more dogs appearing more than once, and much nearer.

The border collie world is blessed in having a fantastic database, far far superior to the KC one, so I can take all my dog's ancestry back to early 1900s - even to Australia and back. We can put in test 'matings', look at likelihood of diseases, colours etc... it is fantastic and thanks to the owner of that database it's a superb 'tool'. Obviously only as good as the data which goes in, but then anyone can add (as long as backed up) a health test, puppies or additional dogs. Plus it's available FOC, donations welcome though :-)

__________________
Penny
Funfastquick Agility Dogs

Interestingly when I imported my sheltie I sent a copy of his pedigree to KC (as required) and received a KC pedigree telling me what I'd told them...... I hadn't asked for it as I'd obviously got his USA one....

__________________
Penny
Funfastquick Agility Dogs

This is something I've looked at doing with my own database - it's just having the time to sit down and look in depth at the best way to go about it - I've got Lab lines going back to the 1870s long before they were registered with the KC - I will have to sit down when I get chance and look at the best way od going it.

__________________
What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy