I need advice and information.

I have just had a client at work who remarked that she is going to breed her Akita once, so that she can get her money back I tried to convince her this was not a good idea in the best way I could but not sure I did a good job. I told her that no one makes money breeding to which she replied the breeder she got her bitch from said she paid for her house from breeding Also that Akita were a very popular breed at the moment and she could get a load of money from selling them. I have mention cost, and whelping and the risk to her bitch and also health testing but could really do with some good hard factual info to try and scare her.

Also her son has two leonbergers and he is going to breed them, again purely momentary reasons.

So I need to know about hereditary conditions etc and risk and costs and litter sizes and anything to try and put this woman off and then get her to put her son off. Also any good website or free sources of info as I don't think she cares enough to go and buy books.

I also have to do this in a sensitive fashion as she is a client and as I work for the NHS I don't think I would still have a job if I just told her to f off and that she was an idiot.

Please help.

Posting and dashing, I'd imagine for Leonbergers they will need hip scoring, the BVA website should have a list of the BMS, and the KC will have recommendations for health testing; also take a look at breed clubs, as they may recommend further tests before the KC do.

I would suggest that if she breeds without full knowledge, and produces any pup with an issue, be that health, conformation or temperament (which is also hereditary) - then she could be sued if the puppy buyer/owner is so inclined. So unless she can guarantee she has done her utmost, and is willing to produce a contract saying what she has and hasn't done, and her reasons why, she's leaving that possibility open.

I'd also try and get hold of a rescue organisation or two to do with this breed, who might be able to help with a bit more advice and info.

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Akitas should be hip scored at the very minimum with a score of 10 or lower. It is also advisable that they are eye tested and cleared for Generalised Progressive Retinal Atrophy. Leonbergers should also be hip scored (scores 12 or less) AND eye tested for Hereditary Cataracts at a minimum, with elbow testing advisable.

Link to the Japanese Akita welfare Trust the Breed Rescue/welfare might help sadly some typical stories on there that illustrates the plight of some that find there refuge in welfare.
The Japanese Akita Welfare Trust | UK Akita Rescue - The Japanese Akita Welfare Trust

Theres another The Akita Welfare and Rescue Trust, Quote "Akitas with Problems being bought to our attention is currently growing day by Day"
Two very busy Akita breed welfare/rescues who are busy by the looks of it, just what they probably need, another Numb nuts breeding and knocking out more illbred Akitas for a few bob. Obviously from what she said about the breeder of hers, they sound so caring great isea give other numb nuts ideas and encouragement to breed a few more too!! Thats even better.
Home - Akita Rescue & Welfare UK - ARW

I honestly dont think people like this are likely to take the blindest bit of notice and be put off by Health testing and the costs, because if she wants her money back shes likely not going to consider doing any of it anyway. Her bitch might not even have been health tested going by the breeders comments to her.

Ive put people off breeding a few litters if staffs over the years, simply quoting numbers in rescues, numbers being PTS, and people breeding them even with proper registered papers and not being able to sell them, considering the fact that theres dint have papers and no KC reg. One litter I knew of even tried to sell them at an unregistered price and had trouble even with papers and full KC reg.

Sorry if this is acerbic by the way, I just despair about people like her and forget to be polite occasionally when it comes to dogs and welfare.

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I would suggest you tell her to join this site,,,,, im sure some will tell her what to expect from breeding,,,

Thanks for all the info so far, a will direct her to the welfare sight but like some have said I don't think she will care enough. I will also try with the angle that she is more likely to lose money and her bitch could die but I don't think she would believe me and again I'm not sure she cares enough.

Might try to direct her to this forum and when she comes on I will just hide, maybe I'll say it is a great sight for those wanting to make money from breeding, I bet she'll be on here staright away.

Sled dog coined it very well as always however the thought of breeding on has come from the 'breeder' in the first instance we all know how hard it is to educate the uneducated.......

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Louise

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It might be worth pointing out to your 'client' in that order to 'pay for a house' through breeding, you have to breed a HELL of a lot of a pups - even more if you do all the required health-tests and use outside stud dogs.

I worked out once how many litters I would need to breed to get the same revenue (not profit) as my gross salary from my job.

In a year, I would have to sell around 76 pups - at an average litter size of 8 that's 9.5 litters (take into consideration some litters might be smaller / some bigger and that some pups might die, and you are looking at 12 + litters

That would need me to keep AT LEAST 12 bitches - if I health-tested them all fully - that runs into thousands - 12 stud dogs - another £6K - 10 sets of pre-mates another £2,000 or so - that's without all the other costs associated with a litter if things are done properly

Even on those very simple figures, it's not difficult to see that working for a living is financially far more rewarding and much easier than breeding litter after litter after litter in a year

Of course, if someone can't be bothered to do the health-tests, uses their own stud dogs or works hand in glove with a stud dog owner - raises the pups in a poor quality environment with poor quality foods, mates the bitches on back to back seasons and probably fails to socialise the pups properly and lets them go early - then yes, you could make a living out of it.

All I would be thinking of was my back - my chapped hands and my nearest and dearest - even a single litter can place a strain on the most stable household - it's fun - but it's bl**dy hard work

Good on you for discouraging your client / friend etc - sadly, I think some people simply won't listen whatever you tell them - and whilst I would never wish ill on any dog, it seems to me sometimes that it's s*d's law that things always seem to go right for these people when those that put their life and soul into having a litter always hit obstacles something very wrong somewhere

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

If money is her motive I'd mention that if she can't tell when she needs a vet and leaves it too late the bitch may need a caesarian section but by the time they can get a vet out to see her and then to get her in for it she could be too weak to survive the anaesthetic and the puppies may die also and that the cost of a vet at that stage could be xxxxx maybe £1000 or maybe more if it is out of surgery hours. I don't know the actual cost but maybe someone can fill in the figures.

I certainly don't think she will be health testing, although I had mentioned hips and elbows to her and will persistand will definatley mention that she could be liable. I think she is only motivated in money and I think the best way to dicourage her will be to give her evidence that it is very hard to make money. I will mention c-sections, her liability for poor pups and the potential of her bitch not surviving and also encourage her to come on here. Thanks for everyones help, I don't see her agian for 3 weeks but I will update you all when I do.