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Dog Breeding Discuss all topics related to responsible dog breeding. Including help and advice on dog breeding issues regarding the mating process, pregnancy issues, post birth issues and all other related topics.

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Old 12-11-2011, 03:17 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

Using a smaller stud doesn't actually mean much it depends on his and her genetics you could have a 4lb boy who throws massive pups.

I hope it goes well for you. Toy dogs mature earlier than other breeds. 2nd or 3rd season is the norm to breed them for the first time.

Hopefully you have had both their knees scored and eyes and hearts tested prior to mating. Good luck
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:29 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

your princess is gorgeous, i bred poms a while back, i had a black stud and cream bitch, they had two litters, all the pups where black. they were much smaller than yours though,, i hope it all goes well if she is.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:41 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

They are both gorgeous!
Hope she is & you are disappointed later!
Good luck with her & the 'pregnancy'
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:43 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

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Last edited by pomlover87; 20-11-2011 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:17 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

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Originally Posted by pomlover87 View Post
First one is of her, this is the picture I took for her registration papers. The 2nd is of her and the daddy. I wonder since the father is a parti, do you think she could have a black and white parti baby?




. . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomlover87 View Post
. . . All of her siblings were black and her mother was black, so I'm not yet knowledgeable of pomeranian genetic colors. I would think it's possible though, because the father has a cream mask and spots on his back, so maybe they could be turned black against white? Guess time will tell.

Thanks everyone for the compliments! I think she's beautiful, of course.
Hi. I'm posting just to speak on the color of the future pups. I feel that if those entering the breeding arena can begin to understand the complexities of color genetics, which is appealing to learn, then hopefully they will feel less challenged and learn more on the full genetics topic.

You first have to understand that there are many color genes that interact to create the color that you see on a dog. . . . 11 gene locations that I can think of off the top of my head and more that aren't identified yet.

Your dam is black . . . and solid in color as well (no/little white). The sire is parti with lemon sable patches. He appears to have black eye rims and a black nose - so he is not a blue or brown sable but a black (based) lemon sable.

You are looking to figure on the color of the pups from this girl and off the top I will tell you that the odds are that most (if not all) will be black.

Parti coloring is determined on the 'white spotting' locus, and it is recessive. In order for a pup to be parti, they have to take on a white spotting (s'p') allele from each one of their parents. When a pup has a matched pair of alleles - s'p'/s'p' - at the white spotting gene locus, THEN they will show parti coloring.

Your dam is solid, with a solid colored dam. She MIGHT carry a parti-piebald (s'p') allele if an ancestor was parti colored. Do you know of any behind HER that were parti?

If she does not carry that parti allele, but instead has two solid color alleles (S/S) at that location, then each and every one of her pups will inherit an S from her, and an s'p' from the litter sire, and be S/s'p' at their white spotting gene locus. This will mean that they will be solid colored themselves without much, or any, white. Some will show a little bit of white on toe tips and chests etc. as they are then parti carriers.

If you use this punnet square and substitute S for B (dominant alleles), and s'p' for b (recessive alleles) . . . you can get a visual for how this works. If just one of the paired alleles in the pup is dominant, that is the allele that will show while the other is carried.



Dog Coat Colour Genetics

Of all the 'full' colors (colors with no/little white) black is also dominant to all others. It is dominant to sable. If your dam carries sable then some of the pups from this pairing could be sable as well.

Hope that helped. I welcome more questions if there are any, as I know that confusion often happens when speaking on color genetics.

CC

Dog Coat Colour Genetics
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Last edited by comfortcreature; 12-11-2011 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:41 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

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Old 12-11-2011, 05:08 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pomlover87 View Post
She isn't solid black. She has a white patch on her chin, chest, and white hairs on the tip of her toes. She has the exact same markings as her mother. 2 of her siblings were solid black, the runt looked more of a sable, but she didn't make it because her lungs weren't fully developed, so I don't know how her colors would have progressed. I would be fine having a litter of black pups, because everyone who has asked me for one is wanting a black one.
Just to clarify, dogs with white tips on chins or chests or toe tips are often genetically 'solid' in color. I know that for reasons of description these tips are described and many speak of them as then 'not solid', but when speaking genetically they are considered solids as they have the same 'genotype' as the solids. It is a transcription error that often causes the white tips - meaning that color is distributed on the tiny pup as it develops in utero and spreads out over it, and sometimes does not finish spreading, leaving tips such as on your girl.

I own a solid colored dog (genetically) that has a full white blaze, a white chest, and four white socks. He has been tested, though, and he is S/s'p' - solid, carrying piebald. He has a full sibling that is also S/s'p' that shows no white whatsoever. Genetically, they are the same at the white spotting locus.

If she had a sable sibling she could very well carry sable. White tips also sometimes indicate a dog is carrying piebald (parti) such as with my boy.

Your dam is a gorgeous girl and has wonderful soft expression. I could well imagine that her black pups, and her others, will be gorgeous.

SOB

Last edited by comfortcreature; 12-11-2011 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:25 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

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Old 12-11-2011, 05:37 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

She's gorgeous, good luck!
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:02 PM
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Re: My princess may be pregnant!

Good luck, fingers crossed she is and all goes well
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